Tank Stances, Traited

[Aana]

This is not a choice. Playing defensively brings not benefit at all once you have the skill and knowledge to play offensively.

2.Changing the benefits of tank stance is exactly what doesn't change how the job plays since stances are "fire and forget" skills.

3. Congratulations, you made up your own number to disprove an idea that wasn't yours, removing the other option available when I clearly stated that this option would remain.

4.Again, this is not a choice. If you're able to play aggressively, you're holding back the team by not doing it. If you're not, then you don't have a choice either.

1: Tank stance as it is now, is a choice. Both are viable in all content except cutting edge world 1st clear scenarios. Optimized is not the same thing as choice. You are asserting that the ONLY way to play is the optimal theoretical way. That's on you. There will always be a numerically optimized way by no matter how slim a margin. Choice by its very nature cannot exist if you refuse to play anything but min-maxed optimization. That's why its not a choice at cutting edge hardcore levels. To be the best you play the objectively 'best' way the game allows, but at every other level those minute differences are washed out allowing regular folks to have some freedom. If you bind yourself to the elite hardcore meta when it doesnt even apply to you, that's your own mindset unnecessarily removing the choices before you.

2.You missed the point. Jobs don't have a variety of playstyle 'options'. A brd is a brd. A blm is a blm. If you want a different experience you play a different job. You don't respec like 1 job per toon games. Changing jobs IS respecs. Tank stances are the only active in-game flexibility you have in the way a tank plays. Wars are burst window tanks. If you want to play a different style you play pld/drk. Stances are fire and forget but change the dynamics of tanking. They are the only choice we actually have that affects our playstyle, and both are viable. Why restrict that? If you drastically widen the gap you reduce the windows where both options are viable. Its more all or nothing. That reduces the flexibility of stances. All this talk is just reduce remove. Why cut down and minimize what few options we have?

3. The numbers are irrelevant. The thread title is literally removing tank stances. Many a suggestions over 11 pages are similar or do the opposite, widen the gap between tank and no tank stance (drastically) in either defense, offense, or both. Both of those versions reduce the playstyle option we have with the current system.

4. See point 1. You are choosing to limit yourself to the world 1st meta when it doesnt apply to you and then basing your entire stance on that foundation. If you are still progressing today, your entire team is 240. World 1st walked in at 220 at best. You do not need that extra DPS they did, nor do you need the extra defense of tank stance. Both are viable. MC tanks in raid groups ACTUALLY use tank stance. The 'goal' is often to use none, but that's a goal. Not a real world experience in most cases. I am more conservative than my old co tank. He never used grit unless we made him. I tend to err on the side of caution until we are through prog. Its a choice. If you choose not to choose, thats your own deal. Its chasing a meta dream that isn't your practical reality.

[Reynhart]

1: Tank stance as it is now, is a choice. Both are viable in all content except cutting edge world 1st clear scenarios. Optimized is not the same thing as choice.

Hurray, in the end, we have a lot of gearing choice then, since optimizing is different.

You are asserting that the ONLY way to play is the optimal theoretical way. That's on you.

That's on any tank that want to improve. But hey, it's your choice to stay in your comfort zone and potentially be a liability for bringing less than you could.

The thread title is literally removing tank stances.

A suggestion I'm clearly against.

Both of those versions reduce the playstyle option we have with the current system.

No, they don't but I won't explain that for the 4th time...

4. See point 1. You are choosing to limit yourself to the world 1st meta when it doesnt apply to you and then basing your entire stance on that foundation.

And you..are choosing to limit yourself. Period.