Tips on being a mentor but not sounding bossy

[Jas710]

In a daily dungeon, just stick to what needs to be done as far as mechanics go if issues come up with wiping. As for anything else, just roll with it and work towards getting to the end. If they stop and ask for tips, then open your mouth. Have some faith that they will eventually learn down the road somewhere what they might be doing wrong or could improve/upgrade. Just like the rest of us did at some point, and still do.

Note that the mentor system is one of the dumbest ideas put into the game. That crown icon over your head is unnecessary. If you feel like the crown and rewards somehow makes you feel special, then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons.

[bswpayton]

In a daily dungeon, just stick to what needs to be done as

Im not following your statement, because I disagree I think the mentor system is fine but because you can point out someone with a crown easier people like to talk about it. I very much became a mentor to help new players like I was helped when I started playing, I got alot of help from the nn. My questioning on tips is because people tend to think most mentors do it for the crown, if that was the case why would I be asking for tips in the first place I already have the crown as you say. I really would like to help, and I know that by nature Im not an aggressive or rude person, so id rather try and help as a decent mentor than , one of the more rude ones people can run into in the game. Hence why I said not talkin about amazing rotations and what not , but its still people around that dont just do the basic things on a job.

Im sure its still palidans out there that dont even know total eclipse exist, or that dont that once you hit unleash once or twice on drk you dont have to spam it I use to be one of those drks haha. That its easy to get mp back after using abymsal drain, you can see it all on the screen you can see what skills players are using etc. So if I see a red mage on a 12 add pull doing their single target rotation why not say something to try and help. Aoe is a thing that many people just forget is a thing it seems in this game.

[Jas710]

...if that was the case why would I be asking for tips in the first place I already have the crown as you say...

I run into players all the time who are still learning their jobs. I should get paid every time I have to mention Shield Oath or Protect, etc.

Thing is, you seem to think wearing a crown designates you an "official" mentor. Which like I mentioned earlier about the system itself, is a load of b.s. We should all be in mentor mode anyway whether we have that icon on or not. That was my point.

Besides, if you were truly ready to mentor people, why does this thread exist? A mentor who doesn't understand why some folks go on the defensive after receiving advice they didn't ask for? Keep that crown off until you figure it out. If you want to toggle that icon on, then you also need to be prepared for scrutiny.

If I sound aggressive, it's because I see terrible "mentors" all the time, and just roll my eyes.

[Altena]

If I sound aggressive, it's because I see terrible "mentors" all the time, and just roll my eyes.

The mentor system is more about answering simple questions such as "where do I get a mount?" or "I can't find my next MSQ" etc...

Everyone should be in "mentor mode" when running stuff, I will agree there.. However the mentor system works for those basic questions that I mentioned.
You don't have to be an all-star vet to answer questions like that - just knowledgeable enough to know where to find the answer and most importantly willing enough to help.

There are always going to be "bad" mentors that give the crown a bad name, just as there are plenty of non-crown players that give the rest of the community a bad name.
The only reason people keep seeing "bad mentors" is because there is something to make them stand out.
I can almost assure you the percentage of unhelpful/toxic mentors compared to helpful/positive ones, is likely a similar number to unhelpful/toxic non-mentors compared to helpful/positive non-mentors.

The issue is not with the system, but with the selection. Becoming a mentor has nothing to do with a player's willingness to help out. It's about having jobs/classes leveled. The system itself is perfectly fine (having a newbie chat channel and something to identify someone in a duty that is willing to help).

[Miste]

A mentor who doesn't understand why some folks go on the defensive after receiving advice they didn't ask for? Keep that crown off until you figure it out.

Are you saying mentors should just not mentor unless asked for help?

Mentor system seems flawed because everyone has their own opinions on what a mentor should do and basically says every mentor should uphold their standard otherwise they are a bad mentor, yet in general you won't know what someone elses standard is unless they openly tell you. Usually people don't so then you just end up with a "I ran into a bad mentor" stories on the forum. Some mentors do cross that line in to actually being bad in a general sense if they are rude and/or don't at least give help if asked, but sometimes it is hard to draw a line anywhere above that basic level.

Like I see people say "only give advice if someone asked, don't give unsolicited advice" and then you have the other half saying "you should be actively giving help, you should be actively giving advice, you shouldn't be a mentor if you are going to stay silent". Some people think a mentor should try to mentor even if the run is going generally fine and no mistakes much, while others would get upset that you would try to say or suggest optimized ways to do things better because it is elitist or "who cares this content is faceroll".

It's impossible to please everyone so that's why we get so much mentor flak. One mentor did something this way and this person didn't like it while another likes that mentor for the same behavior. Cannot win.

[Raqrie_Tohka]

It's impossible to please everyone so that's why we get so much mentor flak. One mentor did something this way and this person didn't like it while another likes that mentor for the same behavior. Cannot win.

Understanding that people are different is a good place to start, to eventually find an adapted solution for all. You can win. Please don't fatalistic attitude me >_< when I'm already having a hard enough time convincing myself. (It's a joke don't take it personally). Don't offer help ... be the help. Don't 'please', don't pander for favor ... the correct word is 'respect'. Gosh I suppose no one ever reads very long posts anyways, but I totally mentioned all this already.

[Miste]

Don't offer help ... be the help. Don't 'please', don't pander for favor ... the correct word is 'respect'. Gosh I suppose no one ever reads very long posts anyways, but I totally mentioned all this already.

Huh? I never said we should try to please everyone or pander for favor (I actually said it is impossible to do that anyway).

I think you might have misunderstood me? I was branching off what the person I quoted said.

When you queue for duties and do your role you already automatically are "being" the help. It is sort of something you do by default...I mean unless someone plays their role very detrimentally, but most people don't.

(also yes sorry I saw your long post but it was way too long for me to read)

[Raqrie_Tohka]

When you queue for duties and do your role you already automatically are "being" the help. It is sort of something you do by default...I mean unless someone plays their role very detrimentally, but most people don't.

Then we are all entitled to be of help for simply existing ... and same argument for them, they are of help simply by playing this game and paying subscription to support it. How dare we criticize them for trivial things like "playstyle" >;


But I jest. What I envisioned when I said to "be" of help, was almost akin to acting. But in honest action instead of fake acting. A natural occurrence of the factors involved, no more, no less. "Act" yourself, instead of "be" yourself. By injecting dynamism and showing, not telling, the point, you are more likely to overall succeed in moving their position and actions instead by pure words alone. If they see the party suffering they are more likely to think and do something about it than if they were told about the effects, or even worse, persuaded to see it that way. It means sometimes you must even play along, fool around with them, joke alongside with them, even try their standpoint. But no more, no less, than as if naturally occurring. You are not the efficiency police. Nor a mentor. Just another player who may or may not happen to share an experience with them.

And on in general: (Vandril)
I've seen more normal players do mechanics explanations of duties than all the help I've seen from mentors combined, of course with party finder nowadays it's all business as usual and lack of efficiency will not be tolerated ... and if someone actually claims a mentor, then they'd better bring to the table more than just another "explanation". A "better worded explanation" simply won't cut it. It's all-out performance and socializing we're expected of. Nothing short of miracles, if miracles were expected from the developers too. You may think words alone will cut it, but hehe, the players who see our shiny mentor icon won't. That thing alone is sometimes enough to rile a person up enough to not give a care about your "carefully worded proposition of advice". Think outside the box. See us for the ivory tower position we are perceived in. Even the developers themselves face minute discriminant observation. Thus they have to abide to corporate policies and "careful wording" to stay safe. You think people can't identify "careful wording" when they see it? That even if some are not capable of playing word games, they cannot recognize one? If they perceive it as "purposeful acting, playing them for fools", they may even be more mad than if we just chilled. So it's probably not best to put so much faith in words alone.

[ElHeggunte]

A mentor who doesn't understand why some folks go on the defensive after receiving advice they didn't ask for? Keep that crown off until you figure it out.

I'll reiterate (for what feels like the fourth time in this thread) the problem with more or less waiting for "permission" to give advice: people aren't going to ask for advice if they don't know they need it. More knowledgeable players keeping their mouth shut until they're "allowed" to speak is precisely why you have a lot of bad players doing the things that they do. They didn't know they needed help so they didn't ask for any. You didn't correct them because you're waiting in vain for them to ask you.

The playerbase as a whole needs to stop trying to mollycoddle everyone's fragile ego. Advice should be given as long as it's being given in a constructive manner. If someone wants to get offended or upset over being corrected, that's entirely their own problem, not yours. Someone potentially getting upset is a poor reason to withhold advice. We would have far less players wearing the wrong equipment or not using skills properly if more people just spoke up.