Tips on being a mentor but not sounding bossy

[Vandril]

That would really only work for questions about the dungeon though. The problem is the people who won't ask questions about their class or role because they think they're already doing it right because no one has ever told them that they're doing it wrong.

Example: I encountered a Warrior once who kept losing aggro to large packs of mobs. If the pack had more than one mob, I fully expected him to lose aggro on several of them, and sure enough, a few seconds into every pull most of the mobs would go tearing after the Black Mage. I started watching what he was doing and realized he wasn't using Overpower or cycling through targets with his enmity combo. After [politely] pointing out that weaving Overpowers would keep him from having to chase after errant mobs, he said that he always assumed that mobs "suddenly" losing aggro was merely a mechanic SE added to make dungeons more difficult. He was surprised that no one had ever bothered to tell him he was doing it wrong, especially when it was such an easy thing to fix. He started weaving Overpowers into his rotation and didn't lose aggro again for the rest of the dungeon.

They won't ask about something they think they already know or don't know that they don't know it. If they're doing something wrong and you know better you should say something.

I really love this story.

Refer to my sig quote. The Dunning–Kruger effect may have been debunked as an absolute, but the correlation it describes is still very true. If people don't know how to do something right, they likely also won't know when they're doing that something wrong without some sort of feedback; either failure at what they were doing or someone telling them there's an easier way to do it. This applies to a whole host of activities, including playing a class on an MMORPG.

The story you shared portrays this cognitive bias perfectly. The only reason the WAR didn't improve on their own was because they weren't aware there was improvement to be had. And the moment it was explained to them that there was an easier way to handle multiple mobs at once as a tank, they immediately picked it up while probably experiencing a sense of "Eureka!"

As for how to approach people as a source of help, I agree with this thread's general sentiment of being polite. And there are some general tricks in wording that can help avoid triggering people:

1) Use soft language. "If you use X, it can make Y easier to tank" is soft language, as opposed to hard, commanding language like "Use X because it makes it easier to tank." Soft language adds a sense of choice to your statement, so it doesn't feel like you're commanding the other player to do something or trying to force them - most of the time, being commanded isn't taken well. So statements like "You can", "You should consider", and "If you use" are soft language, and can help avoid triggering a defensive "I don't have to do what you say" reaction.

2) Avoid "you" statements. Statements that start by pointedly calling out the other player by starting with the word "You" is often subconsciously seen as confrontational, and may make the person defensive. Setting them on the defensive isn't going to help you teach them. Just avoid starting your statements with "You", "the tank", "the healer", "that dragoon", or anything else that singles out another player as much as possible. Example: instead of "You look like you need some help", you could say "I'm willing to help you, if you're interested." Notice the combination of avoiding the you and using soft language.

I was gonna post more, but I'm running out of time. These should get the idea across. In general, you want to avoid making the person you're trying to help feel defensive or pressured. Most people will open up to your help in the form of suggestions, then.

[Darkobra]

So you were in a level 50 MAIN STORY dungeon, and felt the need to pick apart gear? Level 50! In a game where the downscaling is so horrible that 4 level 70s can finish a dungeon that 8 level 50s can!
MAIN STORY where most of the game gives you no rewards useful in the jewellery department, mainly armour and weapons.
MAIN STORY dungeon and you're checking gear.

If you're that concerned about how a new player gears up, give them money and tell them where to buy stuff. If you're actually skilled, actually experienced and been around as long as I have? You'll damn well remember how poor our options are at that level and realise you CANNOT LOSE this game.

[Mavrias]

So you were in a level 50 MAIN STORY dungeon, and felt the need to pick apart gear? Level 50! In a game where the downscaling is so horrible that 4 level 70s can finish a dungeon that 8 level 50s can!
MAIN STORY where most of the game gives you no rewards useful in the jewellery department, mainly armour and weapons.
MAIN STORY dungeon and you're checking gear.

If you're that concerned about how a new player gears up, give them money and tell them where to buy stuff. If you're actually skilled, actually experienced and been around as long as I have? You'll damn well remember how poor our options are at that level and realise you CANNOT LOSE this game.

NPC vendors are a thing.

[Mycow8me]

If your afraid of helping people out of consideration for them or fear of backlash, you won't ever help anyone. Even if you could phrase it in a nice way, even if they do lash out at you, somewhere down the line they might try or think about what you said so its probably better to say something even with repercussions.

[SenorPatty]

Also stick to the point. Don't be a classpedia. If they want you to be one, you can do it after the dgn's cleared.

[Altena]

"Hi there xxxxx, would you like a few pointers? I can see a few things that might help you improve."

"Sure" or no response?
--> "Well it's a good idea to use AoE skills on 4 or more monsters."
--> "You should always try and keep your gear relevant to your level and class. You can find vendor gear at {insert place here}." etc etc

They respond with No.
-- > "Ok no worries."

Can't help people that don't want to be helped. Even if it is genuine advice that would make them a better player.
If they don't respond, just give it to them anyway. They may not want to admit to needing advice, but will take it - or they will just ignore you anyway. Might as well try.

If they say "yes" and they start doing what you suggest - then make sure to follow that up with a commend at the end of the dungeon. Positive reinforcement.

Finally, if they start harassing you, just shrug it off / ignore it. No point on getting into a big argument in the duty and disrupting the other people in the party.

[Endeleon]

I'm not a mentor but my biggest tip on giving advice/fixing mistakes is to /tell the individual instead of doing it on a group setting, as this takes away any shame or embarrassment they may have from having their laundry out to dry so to say.

[Miste]

"Why aren't you using scatter" vs. "Try using scatter in packs" - vastly different tones between two fairly similar comments, neither of which are worded for a child. It's really not difficult to be helpful and civil without coming off like you're just harping on someone.

I'm sorry, but Mavrias has a good point.

People should not be getting defensive over simple words. There is literally no difference between those two sentences. You just made up a difference in your mind and there is a simple way that I know this. There is no "tone" in text on a screen and so many people fail to realize this. You are attaching your own tone to it when it may not be the same or intended tone of the person who wrote it, but in-game being text only you won't know their tone so you need to be neutral.

When you read something someone else has written you should take it at face value and not add an imaginary tone to it in your mind. This would cause you to not only be more relaxed, but also to not treat someone else like crap for no reason because you mislabeled their intentions. Assumptions are bad. They might have had a happy tone or a neutral tone, but you condemn them without even knowing.

If the person chatting used rude language then you obviously can tell their intention, but simply "why aren't you using scatter?" vs. "try using scatter in packs" is just the same way to convey the same information. One is a question so the other party can answer while the other is a suggestion. In the end they mean the same thing "scatter is a good spell to use on multiple mobs" with no swearing or harassment present at all.

No one is going to want to bother trying to help anyone else in this community if they need to walk on eggshells and make sure they write the most perfect sentence to make sure the other person doesn't get pissed off. I mean why do people think it is okay to verbally harass someone for asking a simple question of making a simple statement is beyond me anyway, but I see it happen too often.

The problem with trying to help others in this game isn't how people word things. The problem is people getting defensive over nothing.

That is why I basically stopped offering advice or trying to help people very much anymore. I just get sh** on for it no matter how nice I try to word it.

I've been told to "f*** off" more times I can count, I've been called elitist, I've been called a "c***". I mean these kind of responses you'd think I said something really horrible to them right? Nope. It is usually something like "Hey X, ______ is/are great spells/abilities you should try using them sometimes and it will help your rotation and damage" or heck before stormblood one time I got a nasty response like that for just reminding a NIN they forgot their poison buff.

I don't think how I worded it is the problem, nor did I deserve that verbal abuse for simple questions or suggestions. People are too defensive and your post, Skivvy, kind of highlights part of the problem. Tone doesn't exist in text.

PS. I am not saying you do anything like this Skivvy, after the first paragraph the "you" are pretty much "general you" not towards you personally. Just branched off your post to explain why wording things isn't the problem.

[Ilenya]

Usually when I want to offer advice I start with "Name, may I ask you something?" More often than not they are okay with me doing a follow-up and having a conversation on it, or just say nothing, where I won't bother. I think the only time I don't ask is with a tank with a badly underleveled weapon (Read, 15-20 levels below. Not ilevel, actual level) since it affects their abilities to do things so much. I can't recall ever having someone complain at me, and have actually made a few friends just trying to help.

[Aomine1992]

Yea starting off with "why arnt you ____" will most always get a retaliation or a "you don't pay my sub" I usually try to tell them that this skill may help them better in different situations and never get an attitude so it leads me to wonder how some of you word your "helpful advice" and are you being narcissistic about