RDM's Vercure should be removed or heavily nerfed

[MaikoRaines]

But you know what would make red mages truly game-breaking? If we could use damage over time spells. Paired with Tether, that would allow us to solo practically everything.

DoTs and AOE heals... if they were on RDM I would certainly have an issue about the class being broken AF. As it is right now, it's perfect.

[Saefinn]

Perhaps nerfs in things like PoTD.

Outside of it. I don't think Vercure needs a nerf, same with other spells, at least at cap.

Whilst it is useful as a utility skill, using it can impact your DPS. To a point where my FC mate yells at me in Su Ex to stop healing and DPS, because my healer instincts were kicking in to avoid deaths/wipes, but at the same time, we needed to avoid the enrage as the PUG was falling behind. So RDM is great in a learning party IMO. Beyond that, I think it needs to be able to hold its own DPS, because Vercure becomes less useful.

But soloing in the field, some jobs are just better at it than others. I could solo A Rank hunts as SCH 50. It took a while, yes, but with DoT's + Heals + Good MP management, it wasn't hard. Whilst yes, it was easier to do SB solo stuff as RDM than as NIN, I find content easier as a SCH or PLD too. I don't think it's really something they can balance without some drastic changes that'd probably hurt other areas of play.

[Xeronia]

No, WHM had Arise in the other games which RDM couldn't use, RDM still had dualcast in other games, they could still dualcast Raise. The only reason it's an issue now is because some people are salty that they are no longer the de facto choice in raid progression.

Those games were not MMO's were they? (I have no played XI so forgive me if they could do it there). You also just admitted the problem yourself "some people are salty that they are no longer the de facto choice in raid progression." So Red Mage is because of it's raising capability? There is a problem if a class is that powerful that it is the "de facto" choice. I understand Dual cast is a part of the class but Veraise is broken to heck and back as it has no real lock out compared to every other raise in the game.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Those games were not MMO's were they? (I have no played XI so forgive me if they could do it there). You also just admitted the problem yourself "some people are salty that they are no longer the de facto choice in raid progression." So Red Mage is because of it's raising capability? There is a problem if a class is that powerful that it is the "de facto" choice. I understand Dual cast is a part of the class but Veraise is broken to heck and back as it has no real lock out compared to every other raise in the game.

Verraise isn't broken, it's strong, but the only advantage over other raises that it has is that it's only 2 GCDs compared to 3 and that the raise happens on the front of the 2nd GCD. It still costs the same technically more since you have to cast either 360 mp cost or 600 mp cost spell before it, and RDM has no auxiliary MP recovery. I didn't say RDM is the de facto choice, simply that another class isn't anymore. And nerfing Verraise just to appease the other two casters isn't a real fix.

[Ceallach]

DoTs and AOE heals... if they were on RDM I would certainly have an issue about the class being broken AF. As it is right now, it's perfect.

Right? I honestly worry about going into video game design. All these requests from people who haven't thought out their suggestions to their logical conclusions...

Those games were not MMO's were they?

In FINAL FANTASY XI (the other MMO), red mages were capable of soloing content designed for parties early because they had so many enhancing and enfeebling magic spells that made them practically tanks without the enmity generation. At higher levels, this was counterbalanced by giving white mages the Arise magic spell, which would raise a fallen player and grant him/her Reraise III in case he or she was defeated again, while red mages only had Raise II. Therefore, while both could work as full time healers, parties would prefer white mages to red mages for that role.

Verraise isn't broken, it's strong, but the only advantage over other raises that it has is that it's only 2 GCDs compared to 3 and that the raise happens on the front of the 2nd GCD. It still costs the same technically more since you have to cast either 360 mp cost or 600 mp cost spell before it, and RDM has no auxiliary MP recovery. I didn't say RDM is the de facto choice, simply that another class isn't anymore. And nerfing Verraise just to appease the other two casters isn't a real fix.

The thing is black mages and red mages are fine as they are, but summoner needs work. Nerfing two other jobs to make the one with problems seem playable is not acceptable. Summoner needs to be reworked.

[MaikoRaines]

In FINAL FANTASY XI (the other MMO), red mages were capable of soloing content designed for parties early because they had so many enhancing and enfeebling magic spells that made them practically tanks without the enmity generation. At higher levels, this was counterbalanced by giving white mages the Arise magic spell, which would raise a fallen player and grant him/her Reraise III in case he or she was defeated again, while red mages only had Raise II. Therefore, while both could work as full time healers, parties would prefer white mages to red mages for that role.

People here are also forgetting or don't know that in Final Fantasy XI, "LF1M Healer PST" was a real thing back in the day. Valkurm Dunes, if an RDM joined the party and healed, none of us were complaining.

And yet here we are, having a discussion with people who think they think they know the lore of RDM and the do up the class better by removing important elements that make RDM what it is. Glad they aren't in a position to do so.

[aleph_null]

Verraise isn't broken, it's strong, but the only advantage over other raises that it has is that it's only 2 GCDs compared to 3 and that the raise happens on the front of the 2nd GCD. It still costs the same technically more since you have to cast either 360 mp cost or 600 mp cost spell before it, and RDM has no auxiliary MP recovery. I didn't say RDM is the de facto choice, simply that another class isn't anymore. And nerfing Verraise just to appease the other two casters isn't a real fix.

When you see fflogs and there are 1150 neo exdeath parses for rdm, 189 for blm, 90 for smn, it's hard to deny that rdm is the de facto choice in raid progression, at least for a big part of the raiding community.

[MaikoRaines]

When you see fflogs and there are 1150 neo exdeath parses for rdm, 189 for blm, 90 for smn, it's hard to deny that rdm is the de facto choice in raid progression, at least for a big part of the raiding community.

RDM is also a very new class. I seem to recall when NIN was released and people were complaining about the abundance of that.

[Maeka]

People here are also forgetting or don't know that in Final Fantasy XI, "LF1M Healer PST" was a real thing back in the day. Valkurm Dunes, if an RDM joined the party and healed, none of us were complaining.

Dude, I remember when SUMMONERS, who had absolutely NO healing ability whatsoever, were frequently asked to heal because there were just not enough healers to go around. They slapped /whm on and used gimpy heals, but had such a large MP pool, that spamming Cure II instead of occasional Cure IIIs didn't matter that much, esp earlier level. In fact, summoners used to complain about being a DPS job who were almost never asked to DPS because it was so easy to slap /whm on and do some healing. I've even seen groups where black mages did the same thing. Basically anybody who had a decent-ish MP pool would slap /whm on and heal.

[Xeronia]

Verraise isn't broken, it's strong, but the only advantage over other raises that it has is that it's only 2 GCDs compared to 3 and that the raise happens on the front of the 2nd GCD. It still costs the same technically more since you have to cast either 360 mp cost or 600 mp cost spell before it, and RDM has no auxiliary MP recovery. I didn't say RDM is the de facto choice, simply that another class isn't anymore. And nerfing Verraise just to appease the other two casters isn't a real fix.

So explain to me how SMN was the "de facto" choice because of their raise by your statements and yet RDM raise is not a problem and in no way makes them the de facto choice, even though they push out more raises in a period of time then a WHM, AST, SCH and SMN. My issue isn't that RDM pushed SMN out of raiding, it is that utility shouldn't be on a dps, it should be on a healer.