RDM's Vercure should be removed or heavily nerfed

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Those games were not MMO's were they? (I have no played XI so forgive me if they could do it there). You also just admitted the problem yourself "some people are salty that they are no longer the de facto choice in raid progression." So Red Mage is because of it's raising capability? There is a problem if a class is that powerful that it is the "de facto" choice. I understand Dual cast is a part of the class but Veraise is broken to heck and back as it has no real lock out compared to every other raise in the game.

Verraise isn't broken, it's strong, but the only advantage over other raises that it has is that it's only 2 GCDs compared to 3 and that the raise happens on the front of the 2nd GCD. It still costs the same technically more since you have to cast either 360 mp cost or 600 mp cost spell before it, and RDM has no auxiliary MP recovery. I didn't say RDM is the de facto choice, simply that another class isn't anymore. And nerfing Verraise just to appease the other two casters isn't a real fix.

[Ceallach]

The red mage is meant to be a jack of all trades. FINAL FANTASY XI's red mage was basically required until geomancer came out, red mages throughout the series have pretty much always been good at something that no other job could match, even if it was just versatility and the original poster is complaining about Vercure of all things?

Red mage is fine as it is. We have one healing spell that's for one target and heals plenty. We have Verraise and Embolden, and everything else is damage. But you know what would make red mages truly game-breaking?

If we could use damage over time spells. Paired with Tether, that would allow us to solo practically everything.

[MaikoRaines]

But you know what would make red mages truly game-breaking? If we could use damage over time spells. Paired with Tether, that would allow us to solo practically everything.

DoTs and AOE heals... if they were on RDM I would certainly have an issue about the class being broken AF. As it is right now, it's perfect.

[Maeka]

Why would you want to remove one of the only saving graces I see in PotD?

A lot of times, we will have absolutely no healers when I take a DPS into PotD, but yet Red Mage is a common job to see there. I loathe PotD with zero heals. I hate it with a passion, enough that I am tempted to drop group immediately upon entering if I don't see anybody capable of heals because I know some cheap stupid crap is going to happen that's going to waste 30+ minutes of my time to a wipe.

But RDM saves it with Vercure. Especially if there are two RDMs which is also a somewhat common thing too. No Auto-Heal Floors? RDM can handle that. Emergency Heals in a sticky situation? RDMs save that too.

I don't like being forced to go as a healer to make sure heals are present in PotD. If anything, I think all classes should get a reasonable heal (and no, Second Wind is not a 'reasonable heal'; it's a drop in the bucket).

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Eh I think I'm done with this thread, like it or not, they're probably not going to touch it. BLMs will just have to git gud and SMN is probably going to keep being a disaster till 4.1. And again, you can't just say everyone brute forces through mechanics aleph unless you are most groups. If we want to go lorewise, the only utility summoner ever had non dps wise was Ruby Light, and mass defensive buffs usually shell/protect and physical absorption from golem, and various miscellaneous buffs that for one reason or the other doesn't exist in 14, like haste or vanish.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

And stop referencing the angered reddit post. It's not relevant to 99% of raiding groups regardless of trickle down opinions which are usually held by the type of people who just want to be carried.

[yay4indigo]

it's about downing a boss together, as a team, a group.. vercure can only help achieve that... how odd to complain about something beneficial to even you simply because of achievement.

you know you can become a rdm and get the cheevo, too, right? :P

chin up! have fun!

[Rawrz]

I raised twice in our V1s run last week. 5 Deaths in the run. 97th percentile. Sometimes I wish we didn's get such an accessible raise, because lol numbers.. but we wouldn't have gotten the clear if I hadn't raised each healer. With 5 deaths I only had to raise TWICE. Plenty of time for even SMN to have swiftcast up again.

If they take away VerRaise (which they won't) RDM won't raise lol.

Like I said, they should make raising GIVE you a large amount of white mana, something like 20-25 per raise, to prevent double raises, curbed only by wasting manafiction to balance mana, using combos before 80/80, or delaying finishers and wasting the white mana gained, which reduces DPS if abused, widening the gap between the casters, if they ever did to decide to punish rdm for its raise.

[Elspeth]

So the issue everyone has is that rdm can instant cast raises and "Rez 5 people in 10 gcds" right?

Verraise is more expensive than a healer raise mp wise and requires 1 gcd, which reduces the red mages damage output.

I think it's fair to say that a rdm raising an entire party means A, your party isn't clearing the content, and B, your healers are overworked. But still as a rdm main I think the amount raising I can potentially do is too much.

The fix to this? Is not to remove verraise, not to stop it being dualcastable, but to raise its MP cost further.

Raising its MP cost makes still a viable emergency raise, but not so strong they can Rez half the party.

I'm a rdm main and I almost only ever use verraise when a healer is down to Rez them, and this is how it should be used.

This change lets us keep rdm identity and fixes the issues people have with rdm.

Vercure is fine.

[AlphaSonic]

I think putting Apocatastasis and Addle in the new role actions killed BLM and SMN. Why would you bring BLM or SMN when you have RDM that is a class 10 times easier to play with comparable DPS to other casters and utility that matches other casters? If BLM and SMN brought something unique that RDM couldn't replicate we would see more variation between classes.

I don't know for example:

BLM => Mass Rescue: Drags all your party members to your position.

SMN => Egi Taunt: The next single target ability/spell done by the enemy will target the pet.