RDM's Vercure should be removed or heavily nerfed

[Dualgunner]

im personally not talking just about vercure but bout the whole cls design - Rdm is just "the" cls everybody can feel great with no skill

Keyword is "feel". Not everyone who picks up the job is good at it.

no complexity,

There's a light amount of complexity. When should I use CaC/Displace, will it hurt/kill me or my party if I do it and break position with the rest of the party; when to use swiftcast as cheap mobile or use it as a free 300pot; should I prioritize double bolden finishers by going to 100/100 or 100/99, should I just burn manafy on CD, should I save it for later in the phase, will my combos be interrupted, will I get my verholy/verflare off in time if I start now...

no punishment

Oh crap I accidentally started a cast other than verflare/verholy. Entire combo is dead now. Oh crap verholy/verflare/redoublement/zwercchau wore off before I could get to it. Whole combo's whiffed. Oh shoot, impact/verstone/verfire wore off midcast, killing my ABC and interrupting my flow. Shoot, people are dying and healers are off swift, I have to interrupt my entire damage cycle to pick people up.

no positionals,

Name me one other caster that has positionals.

much forgiveness,

There is a good deal of forgiveness, I'll admit, but it only forgives so much before you're just bad.

high dps even if you faceroll your keyboard.

This is just blatantly wrong. You have middling dps if you just faceroll the keyboard. And yes I know you exaggerate, but so do I here; if all you're doing is basic stuff with no added thought, your dps will be passable (for an expert roulette). You have high-average dps if you're good. Black Mages and Samurai, comparatively, have great-high levels of dps.

NO cls was ever so independent before not even the examples you are trying to bring up. Solo War Titan, Solo Sch Titan, Solo SMN Titan are around since forever the difference is those player actually got SKILL and it wasn't the norm - RDM is norm and be honest what does RDM need for performance? Now don't say skill....

Okay, so my challenge to you: go solo PotD to 200, then come back and tell me there was no skill involved. Upload some of your prog raids to FFLogs so we can all see how good of a Red Mage you are in those fights. Should be simple enough since there's "no skill involved" and RDM soloing PotD can be considered "the norm". While you're at it, go solo Ravana EX or Bismarck EX, record and upload to youtube, then come back. That would be the equivalent of soloing Titan EX as a 3.x warrior.

EDIT: To add: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=42&dataset=10

The bottom 10th RDM are 5th ranked on V1S

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=43&dataset=10

4th on V2S

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=44&dataset=10

Dead last on V3S

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=45&dataset=10

5th Ranked for ExDeath

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=45&dataset=10

6th Ranked for Neo Exdeath.

The worst Red Mages are still beaten by quite a few people. You cannot just pick up RDM and be the best person around.

[Neela]

Should be simple enough since there's "no skill involved" and RDM soloing PotD can be considered "the norm".

you are mixing stuff up here - high dps and the best utility for solo content without any backdrops is norm if you are running around as Rdm. never said the potd achievement would be norm.

You cannot just pick up RDM and be the best person around.

uh sure you can – if i see 700+ rdms, 120+ blm and <50 smn fflog uploads alone for the last savage tier – rdm really have a hard time hm? I can't understand that people still try to defend Rdms current status... it's not cause rdm is soooooo cool... its cause of the cls design and the effort for effect point. cmn you know what its all about.


edit: not that i mind but the last 4 topics with fflogs-links were deleted completely if you wanna argue a bit more with me you should post less of them ^^

[HolyTurtle]

if i see 700+ rdms, 120+ blm and <50 smn fflog uploads alone for the last savage tier – rdm really have a hard time hm?

What kind of retarded statements is this? The popularity of a dps class is not positively correlated to its dps performance. Here is the average ranking of RDM dps performance on the current tier savage:
- 10/20/30/.../80 percentile: 5th/6th out of 9 DPS; 3rd out of 3 casters
- 90/95 percentile: 7th out of 9 DPS; 3rd out of 3 casters
- 99 percentile: 6th out of 9 DPS; 3rd out of 3 casters

Rdm is just "the" cls everybody can feel great with no skill, no complexity, no punishment, no positionals, much forgiveness, high dps even if you faceroll your keyboard.

Such an ignorant statement.
- "High dps even if you faceroll your keyboard"? The fflog data doesn't support your claim. At all skill levels, RDM dps is inferior to other casters' dps.
- "no complexity, no punishment,... , much forgiveness" we pay for these with our inferior dps compared to other casters.

[Darian]

What kind of retarded statements is this? The popularity of a dps class is not positively correlated to its dps performance. Here is the average ranking of RDM dps performance on the current tier savage:
- 10/20/30/.../80 percentile: 5th/6th out of 9 DPS; 3rd out of 3 casters
- 90/95 percentile: 7th out of 9 DPS; 3rd out of 3 casters
- 99 percentile: 6th out of 9 DPS; 3rd out of 3 casters



Such an ignorant statement.
- "High dps even if you faceroll your keyboard"? The fflog data doesn't support your claim. At all skill levels, RDM dps is inferior to other casters' dps.
- "no complexity, no punishment,... , much forgiveness" we pay for these with our inferior dps compared to other casters.

You can show ppl here all the fflog data that shows RDM is fine and they will still ignore it. Lol. Numbers and data mean nothing unfortunately.

[MaikoRaines]

Rdm is just "the" cls everybody can feel great with no skill, no complexity, no punishment, no positionals, much forgiveness, high dps even if you faceroll your keyboard.

Ever the ignorant comment if I've seen one in this post. I've seen many.

[Bethaiah]

RDM is still being haunted by the first few weeks when it was "broken"

The penny is dropping for folks now, if your really good, you can get "middle of the road" RDM DPS.

I ACT every fight I use my RDM for, while hardly being the greatest player of all time, and having a lot less time put into FF 14 than others, the numbers don't lie.

If I was leading a pro static/raid team in whatever game. I would take another DPS class over a RDM.

That being said, it looks nice graphically, and you can save DF groups with some fast rezzing.

[Kabooa]

If I was leading a pro static/raid team in whatever game. I would take another DPS class over a RDM.

I mean, that's the trend now for the people who have already cleared. That 'another dps' just tends to be another melee, so.

[zuzu-bq]

RDM is still being haunted by the first few weeks when it was "broken"

Verraise is still broken and if not changed RDM will still be OP on any progression party at early stages of raid progression.

[Dualgunner]

So you'll solo to floor 200 of PotD then? Also no comment on the actual numerical results looking at how performance on the lowest percentile of each fight is? Popularity =/= ease of use, and while ease of use can be a factor it's not the sole one.

you are mixing stuff up here - high dps and the best utility for solo content without any backdrops is norm if you are running around as Rdm. never said the potd achievement would be norm.

You can't shift the goalposts here. Your problem from the first post was you emphasizing the fact that RDM is one of the jobs that currently can solo PotD to 200.

it's not cause rdm is soooooo cool... its cause of the cls design and the effort for effect point. cmn you know what its all about.

It's not at all because of class effort for effect. Red Mage is middle tier dps at best. They're taken as a security blanket, their raise is why they're taken; nothing to do with "it's simple".

edit: not that i mind but the last 4 topics with fflogs-links were deleted completely if you wanna argue a bit more with me you should post less of them ^^

I don't know what the last four fflogs-linked topics were but every one I've seen them in has been fine.

Besides, it's useless to even argue if we can't bring solid numbers into this. Otherwise we're just talking conjecture and getting nowhere at all.

[Neela]

we're just talking conjecture and getting nowhere at all.

honestly i lost interest in this chat since i read your arguments for Rdms "punishing" & "complexity" - you can't be serious bout them. the whole discussion is getting nowhere since the beginning cause you put more effort in bashing me and remix statements which I've never said the way you are referring them - instead of seeing through what Im trying to say, so yeah let's quit here ^^