RDM's Vercure should be removed or heavily nerfed

[Ceallach]

I think an issue is nobody can agree on what makes summoner great.

I disagree.

[Dualgunner]

I disagree.

[Ceallach]

If you read the entire thread, you'll notice that there's a nigh-unanimous consensus on quite a few things.

• Pets suck right now, so they need to be fixed or removed.
• We don't want to be stuck with just Ifrit, Titan, Garuda and Bahamut when there are nearly twenty primals we could be drawing power from.
• We'd rather have demi-primals to primal-egis.
• Ruin is pretty silly.

[yay4indigo]

it's about downing a boss together, as a team, a group.. vercure can only help achieve that... how odd to complain about something beneficial to even you simply because of achievement.

you know you can become a rdm and get the cheevo, too, right? :P

chin up! have fun!

[Dyvid]

I disagree.

I disagree and I've been readying SMN post for a very long time now. The only consensus is everyone wants something different.

On subject Vercure doesn't bug me one bit because RDM shouldn't be casting in parties anyway and if they are there are bigger issues with the group.

[Rawrz]

I raised twice in our V1s run last week. 5 Deaths in the run. 97th percentile. Sometimes I wish we didn's get such an accessible raise, because lol numbers.. but we wouldn't have gotten the clear if I hadn't raised each healer. With 5 deaths I only had to raise TWICE. Plenty of time for even SMN to have swiftcast up again.

If they take away VerRaise (which they won't) RDM won't raise lol.

Like I said, they should make raising GIVE you a large amount of white mana, something like 20-25 per raise, to prevent double raises, curbed only by wasting manafiction to balance mana, using combos before 80/80, or delaying finishers and wasting the white mana gained, which reduces DPS if abused, widening the gap between the casters, if they ever did to decide to punish rdm for its raise.

[aleph_null]

I guess that's my big issue, since Midas was the last tier I seriously raided in prior to this tier, and it's hard to see anything without that lens of mechanic failure = total party wipe. I also concede on my earlier point about DRG as well, as that came from the old DRG/NIN/MCH/BRD comps of 3.x.

Personally speaking I have no issues removing verraise from dualcast, but beyond that I see no other nerfs needed for RDM's support skills.

True, the difference between midas and deltascape is quite huge in terms of ability to recover after deaths, so the value of raise (even smn's) is comparatively higher than before. It won't matter if you can execute the mechanics properly, but when you're still learning, chances are, you won't. So you take a rdm and clear before you can execute mechanics perfectly, because you can still recover and beat enrage, or you take a blm and have to wait until everyone can execute mechanics well before clearing. The only floor where people might struggle with enrage dps check if they die too much is o4s. Even o3s was clearable with many deaths in the first week. My group had 9 deaths, some of my friends' groups nearly wiped during the minjack tether adds and recovered with healer LB3. These would've made it impossible to clear if we're talking about things like a6s-a8s, or even a11s-a12s during the early weeks.

[zuzu-bq]

The only real reason Vercure should be nerfed is to not encourage people to use it seriously to become a part-time healer. Because they shouldn't do it anyways but its somehow possible depending on content (you can actually get away with it in some dungeons) and that's a bit dumb. It's nothing to do with the fact other DPS can't do it. It's with the fact it can be used for stuff it shouldn't to begin with.

[Elspeth]

So the issue everyone has is that rdm can instant cast raises and "Rez 5 people in 10 gcds" right?

Verraise is more expensive than a healer raise mp wise and requires 1 gcd, which reduces the red mages damage output.

I think it's fair to say that a rdm raising an entire party means A, your party isn't clearing the content, and B, your healers are overworked. But still as a rdm main I think the amount raising I can potentially do is too much.

The fix to this? Is not to remove verraise, not to stop it being dualcastable, but to raise its MP cost further.

Raising its MP cost makes still a viable emergency raise, but not so strong they can Rez half the party.

I'm a rdm main and I almost only ever use verraise when a healer is down to Rez them, and this is how it should be used.

This change lets us keep rdm identity and fixes the issues people have with rdm.

Vercure is fine.

[AlphaSonic]

I think putting Apocatastasis and Addle in the new role actions killed BLM and SMN. Why would you bring BLM or SMN when you have RDM that is a class 10 times easier to play with comparable DPS to other casters and utility that matches other casters? If BLM and SMN brought something unique that RDM couldn't replicate we would see more variation between classes.

I don't know for example:

BLM => Mass Rescue: Drags all your party members to your position.

SMN => Egi Taunt: The next single target ability/spell done by the enemy will target the pet.