Take it easy, Tanks.

[Fernosaur]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this but I kind of agree with Thunda_Cat_SMASH on this one, just for one reason that has been barely mentioned in this thread: If the DPS are bad at AoEing or are simply just trash in general, a big pull is gonna be worse for everyone because things will die super slow and both the healer and the tank are going to end up lacking CDs and dying. In this scenario, it's better to just pull small, hop on DPS stance and help as much as you can. If the healer is also DPSing, well, they'll have more time for it. If not, at least you're doing what you can to contribute the most.

Tank and healer AoE damage isn't as good as before, so relying on these two roles to burn trash down ain't gonna cut it if the two DPS aren't up to snuff.

[Maeka]

...

I suppose it also depends on the class. PLD turning on Sword Oath? Uh, no. Just.... don't. Keep Shield Oath on, because Sword Oath is... not anything you'd want for its awesome deeps (Sword Oath is for Off-Tanking so you don't build too much threat, and for Solo because you build Oath much faster so you can keep spamming Sheltron and Clemency to make yourself invincible). Since I have no experience playing a Warrior, and since the person you are referring to is a Warrior, they were speaking from a Warrior's PoV.

A PLD's Shield Oath gives far more defensive power than a Warrior's tank stance, and a Warrior's DPS stance increases DPS by more than a PLD's Sword Oath from my understanding (I could be wrong about this, but eh).

[Tridus]

A PLD's Shield Oath gives far more defensive power than a Warrior's tank stance, and a Warrior's DPS stance increases DPS by more than a PLD's Sword Oath from my understanding (I could be wrong about this, but eh).

IIRC Defiance increases maximum HP and incoming healing. Defensively it's not nearly as good as Shield Oath, although extra HP isn't bad.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

IIRC Defiance increases maximum HP and incoming healing. Defensively it's not nearly as good as Shield Oath, although extra HP isn't bad.

In some ways it's as good/better than Shield Oath, in others it's lacking. A WAR Defiance with rotating CDs will not only have increased maximum HP and spell healing, but a WAR will literally never not have some kind of defensive buff in Defiance, ever, whether it's IB or anyone of their massive cool down suite, which doesn't even touch on their self healing(Chaining IB and their cooldowns gives them effectively better defense than anything a PLD could achieve for sustained mitigation)). ShO only really beats out Def when played with a SCH since most of their heals aren't spells, but abilities. Conversely, in certain situations SwO is a greater dps boost then Deliv, but they both have strengths and weaknesses. (SwO around 15% increased DPS through AAs alone before factoring in the lack of damage penalty, while Deliv is the clear winner in AoE damage.

I might enjoy tanking a bit, so I kiiinda thoroughly studied both jobs.

[Fernosaur]

A PLD's Shield Oath gives far more defensive power than a Warrior's tank stance, and a Warrior's DPS stance increases DPS by more than a PLD's Sword Oath from my understanding (I could be wrong about this, but eh).

If you're only gonna be tanking three mobs you might as well turn any DPS stance, no matter the job. Sword Oath by itself isn't great bc of the awesome deeps, but because it means not being in Shield Oath and taking a damage penalty.

Believe me, a three mob pack doesn't need Shield Oath if you know what you're doing, with the exception of levelling dungeons like Bardam's when you don't have stat-capped gear due to IL and level sync and things will hit you super hard. I'm obviously not talking for undergeared tanks going into levelling dungeons and not having tank stance on.


Also, WAR's Defiance works mathematically in an identical manner to Shield Oath. They don't have 20% mitigation, but the 25% extra effective HP is basically the same thing. WAR is slightly harder to heal in Defiance than PLD or DRK in ShO and Grit, but it's by a minimal margin.

Remember that damage reduction works in percents in this game. A PLD in Shield Oath will numerically take less damage than a (topped off) WAR in Defiance, but their HP bars will lose the same amount of % from the same hit. In the end, the % of the tank's HP bar is all that matters.

Similarly, Deliverance and Sword Oath both natively grant more or less the same damage bonus, the main difference is in the fact that Deliverance unlocks more powerful abilities in terms of potency, such as Fell Cleave and Decimate. Damage in Sword Oath is still 15% stronger than in Shield Oath, however, and this isn't factoring the added auto-attack damage.

Also? Sword Oath is as much for main tanking as it is for off-tanking. Of course, provided you know what you're doing to mitigate incoming damage.