Take it easy, Tanks.

[Maeka]

...

I suppose it also depends on the class. PLD turning on Sword Oath? Uh, no. Just.... don't. Keep Shield Oath on, because Sword Oath is... not anything you'd want for its awesome deeps (Sword Oath is for Off-Tanking so you don't build too much threat, and for Solo because you build Oath much faster so you can keep spamming Sheltron and Clemency to make yourself invincible). Since I have no experience playing a Warrior, and since the person you are referring to is a Warrior, they were speaking from a Warrior's PoV.

A PLD's Shield Oath gives far more defensive power than a Warrior's tank stance, and a Warrior's DPS stance increases DPS by more than a PLD's Sword Oath from my understanding (I could be wrong about this, but eh).

[Tridus]

A PLD's Shield Oath gives far more defensive power than a Warrior's tank stance, and a Warrior's DPS stance increases DPS by more than a PLD's Sword Oath from my understanding (I could be wrong about this, but eh).

IIRC Defiance increases maximum HP and incoming healing. Defensively it's not nearly as good as Shield Oath, although extra HP isn't bad.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

IIRC Defiance increases maximum HP and incoming healing. Defensively it's not nearly as good as Shield Oath, although extra HP isn't bad.

In some ways it's as good/better than Shield Oath, in others it's lacking. A WAR Defiance with rotating CDs will not only have increased maximum HP and spell healing, but a WAR will literally never not have some kind of defensive buff in Defiance, ever, whether it's IB or anyone of their massive cool down suite, which doesn't even touch on their self healing(Chaining IB and their cooldowns gives them effectively better defense than anything a PLD could achieve for sustained mitigation)). ShO only really beats out Def when played with a SCH since most of their heals aren't spells, but abilities. Conversely, in certain situations SwO is a greater dps boost then Deliv, but they both have strengths and weaknesses. (SwO around 15% increased DPS through AAs alone before factoring in the lack of damage penalty, while Deliv is the clear winner in AoE damage.

I might enjoy tanking a bit, so I kiiinda thoroughly studied both jobs.

[Fernosaur]

A PLD's Shield Oath gives far more defensive power than a Warrior's tank stance, and a Warrior's DPS stance increases DPS by more than a PLD's Sword Oath from my understanding (I could be wrong about this, but eh).

If you're only gonna be tanking three mobs you might as well turn any DPS stance, no matter the job. Sword Oath by itself isn't great bc of the awesome deeps, but because it means not being in Shield Oath and taking a damage penalty.

Believe me, a three mob pack doesn't need Shield Oath if you know what you're doing, with the exception of levelling dungeons like Bardam's when you don't have stat-capped gear due to IL and level sync and things will hit you super hard. I'm obviously not talking for undergeared tanks going into levelling dungeons and not having tank stance on.


Also, WAR's Defiance works mathematically in an identical manner to Shield Oath. They don't have 20% mitigation, but the 25% extra effective HP is basically the same thing. WAR is slightly harder to heal in Defiance than PLD or DRK in ShO and Grit, but it's by a minimal margin.

Remember that damage reduction works in percents in this game. A PLD in Shield Oath will numerically take less damage than a (topped off) WAR in Defiance, but their HP bars will lose the same amount of % from the same hit. In the end, the % of the tank's HP bar is all that matters.

Similarly, Deliverance and Sword Oath both natively grant more or less the same damage bonus, the main difference is in the fact that Deliverance unlocks more powerful abilities in terms of potency, such as Fell Cleave and Decimate. Damage in Sword Oath is still 15% stronger than in Shield Oath, however, and this isn't factoring the added auto-attack damage.

Also? Sword Oath is as much for main tanking as it is for off-tanking. Of course, provided you know what you're doing to mitigate incoming damage.

[Kyrph]

I think it is alright to have larger pulls as a tank if you are prepared for it. Within the first couple of pulls in a dungeon you can get the feel for how skilled you party is and if you are able to go for those bigger pulls without a chance of your party dying. If you have strong dps that can quickly kill mobs than with a CD you can probably make a large pull and be alright. On the other hand you may have a skilled healer that can quickly top you and keep you alive through those pulls. It is all about being able to quickly evaluate your party and pull based off that. Also wait for healers to get mana =P!

[DacienSanderon]

In some ways it's as good/better than Shield Oath, in others it's lacking. A WAR Defiance with rotating CDs will not only have increased maximum HP and spell healing, but a WAR will literally never not have some kind of defensive buff in Defiance, ever, whether it's IB or anyone of their massive cool down suite, which doesn't even touch on their self healing(Chaining IB and their cooldowns gives them effectively better defense than anything a PLD could achieve for sustained mitigation)).

I might enjoy tanking a bit, so I kiiinda thoroughly studied both jobs.

You don't know what literally or ever mean. IB has less than 50% uptime, not to mention it is not used in AE pulls. Meanwhile paladins get their 4% block bonus mitigation and 5% flash mitigation. The stances themselves are basically identical though.

[DacienSanderon]

Assuming I ever have the wrath to use it. I largely burn it ASAP on SC on big pulls, especially when zerked.

So you time turning on defiance to land right as the healer gets his heal off? Amazing skills that! What if the healer casts regen or uses an instant heal. Perhaps you time the stance switches between regen ticks and have professor x mind reading skills too.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

So you time turning on defiance to land right as the healer gets his heal off? Amazing skills that! What if the healer casts regen or uses an instant heal. Perhaps you time the stance switches between regen ticks and have professor x mind reading skills too.

Couldn't say, personally. Steel Cyclone is the strongest AoE damage WAR has, however, so I have no problems burning it for damage if the healer is half decent. Conversely, if the healer is lacking, I'll find myself prioritizing it's use for sustain rather than DPS. As for Regen? So long as it lands on me before I swap onto Deliv, I'll have the boosted ticks on me for as long as it lasts. Incidentally, Defiance doesn't do anything for non Aspect Benefic instant heals, as Defiance doesn't buff healing abilities, just spells. Logically speaking, this means as far as Tetra/Lustrate/ED are concerned, I might as well be in Deliverance for all the good they'll do me.

The joys of having an oGCD stance swap~

Snip.

Regarding CD suites, WAR can chain mitigation back to back to back for a full 91-119 seconds on an AoE pull at minimum, with three infuriates, 3 1,200 potency heals, 1 RI+Aw combo, 1 conv+ToB, 1 Ven, 2 Rampart, 1 Holmgang, and 4 IBs. Of course, this is ridiculously inefficient DPS wise because SC is a free 200 potency AoE around the WAR that ignores the defiance penalty with no drop off in enmity generated. A WAR in DPS stance can chain together back to back CDs for roughly the same time as PLD at 55 seconds, but unlike PLD WAR has a semi spammable 300 potency AoE in Decimate which they can pull off three times back to back to back. Add Berserk, that hits even harder at nearly 400 potency with a +10% chance to crits on every mob pulled.

[MoroMurasaki]

I'm generally in the middle here, I like a medium pull (especially on WHM) but when they get past 2 packs many DF tanks need a pretty constant heal spam to not be floortanking in seconds.

That being said I just did Xephatol as AST with a BRD, MCH and the best PLD I have ever seen. He did every pull as large as possible amd even with that I was spamming Gravity and melting everything like I was a DPS. My Aspected Benefic shields were lasting crazy lengths of time. It got to a point that he would just throw a Clemency on himself every once in a while and I just killed things.

On bosses he was the perfect Sword Oath PLD, I am on PS4 so I can't run a parser but from what I could tell he was doing good damage.

Just so stress free, so unlike what I expected when he first pulled all the way up the hill

Point is? Some tanks can handle it. Sadly more tanks just think they can handle it.

[Trespar]

There's this ridiculous idea that it's faster to do big pulls with every party composition.

But I find it hard to believe that a party with two dps that come with low aoe capabilities clears faster with big pulls but no healer dps, than small pulls with healer dps.
I often find myself in a situation where I can't dps because I have to spamheal, and the pull actually takes forever to clear, sometimes to the point where I almost run out of MP just from spamming heals.

On the other hand, smaller pulls allow me to keep the tank up with HoTs and ogcds and I get to spam my broken aoe spell and everything just melts.

Small pulls are okay. I actually enjoy them far more. Just spamming Benefic II just to keep the tank alive is actually not fun for me. I'd like to use all my abilities.
It's also great if I get some time to manage my cards so I have at least one Balance combo for the boss.

Tanks really need to learn their and the party's limits.
And realize that it's okay to pull smaller packs sometimes.