PLD + DRK synergy; WAR falling behind?

[oph]

Going with the current information available to us, these two seem to have some of the highest synergy.

DRK Grit interaction with the rest of its kit is an incentive for main tanking for the largest portion of a fight without any real drawback in stance swapping except for MP and a GCD, where as PLD is looking to be the new king of tank dps and seem like it would largely benefit from spending more time on sword oath.

In a scenario where slashing debuff will no longer be the luxury it is currently and will be far more accessible outside of having a WAR present, with the latter having a penalty in stance swapping and not bringing group utility to compete with either PLD or DRK, how do you think things will fare for WAR in a more serious raid environment?

[Lambdafish]

If you don't bring a SAM or NIN, WAR is likely better than DRK. Ultimately, we can't answer this question yet because we don't have the final potencies, and the jobs haven't been tested to find their potential. I can see DRK and WAR being interchangable if I'm honest, with PLD being the new WAR.

[konpachizaraki]

it's going to be PLD+ 1 of the other 2
that's the very least that i can see happening
though IMO dual PLD will be better than PLD with 1 that isn't PLD

[Lambdafish]

it's going to be PLD+ 1 of the other 2
that's the very least that i can see happening
though IMO dual PLD will be better than PLD with 1 that isn't PLD

The added mitigation isnt always necessary though, when fights allow it solo tanking might be the way to go. Perhaps even going PLD/SAM, taking advantage of third eye

[konpachizaraki]

The added mitigation isnt always necessary though, when fights allow it solo tanking might be the way to go. Perhaps even going PLD/SAM, taking advantage of third eye

it is necessary when you haven't mastered the fight yet, especially since PLD is much better offensively now so they don't need to worry about not having warrior in it to act as a pseudo DPS

[Ultimatecalibur]

I wouldn't be so certain about the Warrior falling behind.

Potencies and Beast gauge costs are not necessarily the same as what we have seen so far so the Paladin/Dark Knight/Warrior relative dps numbers are not set to what has been mathed out.

The utility Warrior is gaining is also likely being underestimated. Onslaught's ability to quickly engage/reengage during a fight should not be down played even with the changes to sprint. Shake It Off is likely to be surprisingly good now that the UI will have a white line over any debuffs can be cleansed. Inner Release's ability to spam Fell Cleaves is fairly visible but the Stun/Sleep/Bind/Heavy/Knockback immunity should not be underestimated.

[Launched]

The utility Warrior is gaining is also likely being underestimated. Onslaught's ability to quickly engage/reengage during a fight should not be down played even with the changes to sprint. Shake It Off is likely to be surprisingly good now that the UI will have a white line over any debuffs can be cleansed. Inner Release's ability to spam Fell Cleaves is fairly visible but the Stun/Sleep/Bind/Heavy/Knockback immunity should not be underestimated.

That's not the kind of "utility" people want. Divine Veil, Passage of Arms and Intervention are utility. Blackest Night is utility. We don't call DRG's Spineshatter Dive/Dragonfire Dive utility, or MNK's Shoulder Tackle. Their utility is Disembowel, Battle Litany, Dragon Sight, and Brotherhood: all things that actually help the group. WAR's new skills help slightly increase DPS uptime, but that's it. PLD and DRK will be able to pick up adds just fine without Onslaught (DRK even has Plunge), and no fight is going to have debuffs strong enough or often enough to make Shake it Off and Inner Release better over PLD or DRK. Be honest, how often does Tempered Will do more than just increase DPS uptime? Not much, because mechanics won't be designed around a skill only one tank has.

[Lyth]

In 3.x, Cover was useless and everyone wanted a gap closer. In 4.x, gap closers are useless and everyone wants Cover. I'm trying to guess what 5.x's meta ability will be.

[Ultimatecalibur]

That's not the kind of "utility" people want. Divine Veil, Passage of Arms and Intervention are utility. Blackest Night is utility. We don't call DRG's Spineshatter Dive/Dragonfire Dive utility, or MNK's Shoulder Tackle.

Only because Spineshatter Dive and Shoulder Tackle are not currently being used as gap closing stuns to prevent adds from moving closer. Fist of Earth is actually adding a Knockback to Shoulder Tackle.

Their utility is Disembowel, Battle Litany, Dragon Sight, and Brotherhood: all things that actually help the group.

Those are not utility. Those are dps buffs. Utility is stuff that helps without necessarily doing damage. Rescue, Warden's Paean, Interject, Leg Sweep, Arm's Length and other such things are utility.

WAR's new skills help slightly increase DPS uptime, but that's it. PLD and DRK will be able to pick up adds just fine without Onslaught (DRK even has Plunge),

Dark Knight and Warrior can now both cover that. Paladin will actually be the one far behind the others when it comes to picking up distant adds.

and no fight is going to have debuffs strong enough or often enough to make Shake it Off and Inner Release better over PLD or DRK.

Not necessarily true. Consider what increased cleansable debuffs means for cleansing and check the Caster cross role list to see a new DoT cleansing cooldown.

Be honest, how often does Tempered Will do more than just increase DPS uptime?

In fights with predictable forced movement like Titan, Sophia and Levi it can be a lifesaver. It makes eating mines in A6S much easier. When Binds and Heavies get applied it is great for getting out of stuff. The biggest problem with Tempered Will is the 3 min cooldown.

Not much, because mechanics won't be designed around a skill only one tank has.

This is the key phrase you need to pay attention to.

It is because only the Paladin had party protects like Cover that no content could be designed to expect it. Now both the Paladin and Dark Knight have tools to protect others.
Because only Dark Knight having Plunge, they could not design content that assumed one tank could instantly go to the other side of the arena to tank something far away. Now both Dark Knight and Warrior can do so.
Because only Paladin had Tempered Will, fights could not be designed with the assumption that one or more tanks can avoid binds/heavy/knockback. Now both Paladin and Warrior can do such.

[Ashua]

Nitpicking what your definition of utility matters little. Statics will min max which tanks bring the most that allows less healing/more damage overall to finish fights faster. Nothing more nothing less. Dark/paladin is looking to be the pairing at first glance but we cannot say until we are actually in the fights.