Take it easy, Tanks.

[Leigaon]

A smart tank would notice if it's too much. Often times it's just not enough DPS to burn them down quickly and not even the healer's fault.

That's one of the issues, people in general do not like to admit to their own mistakes. We are a production chain and only as strong as the weakest part.

I took WAR up to 70 first, loved it. I pulled, but I'll admit I pulled slow. The mindset I've stuck to is that remember, these AoE's other jobs have are either not incredibly strong or they're nerfed after so many mobs. In most cases pulling so many doesn't help because they're being hit by a 50 / 80 % potency reduction.

For me, normal or not always large pulls means that the healer can make up for any DPS loss due to the other two not being up to the task. Maybe they're under geared, maybe they don't know their rotation. If things take too long to die and I let a healer go loose, they'll even it out.

[KingFrost]

Leveling a tank and healer. Seems like 2 packs at a time is the way to go. It's usually enough enemies to make AoE effective, not enough to have single target DPS feel insignificant/TP starved, and give the healer enough time to DPS a little and not lose their minds.

Then again I'm leveling War and Whm, the former has an effective 40% reduction at will or for a whole dungeon with their CDs, and the latter is swimming in heals.

[Drkdays]

That one has an easy answer. Everyone else back off and let them die. They'll figure it out eventually.

That's a possible answer, but drama can do worse than slow a dungeon run, it can kill it.

[RopeDrink]

Here's how I roll.

-- Phase in, wait for Protection, set healer as focus. All moving / clearly present? Good, off I go.

-- Double pull, assuming I'm confident in my gear vs content. Sometimes I could do more/less - but this is a test phase. If the Healer hasn't spoken then I need to figure them out for myself, much like a Healer needs to get to know their tank, and both need to know the DPS. No point being stingy with mitigation CD's, they make the run go smoother.

-- Looks comfortable and/or are they DPS'ing? We can probably grab more. They're an AFK healbot and/or struggling on actually healing? Same or less. The mistake tanks make is assuming a Healbot means it's safer to pull more, when in reality it simply means that big-ass pack is wailing on you for free and taking a lot longer to die (depending on the DPS alone, of course). More often than not, if you're doing dungeons, you have 1-2 DPS who are there for gear ie. not optimal, so having 1.5 DPS and a no-DPS healer with a triple pack means MP will be burned, downtime adds up and it's quite possible a wipe may happen unless you're some sort of immortal god (and even then, that is slow).


In short, I intend to figure out the group by the time the 1st/2nd group is dead. When I log in as Healer, too many times has a tank darted off for a double pull, sometimes even without waiting for Protection. All this tells me is that they are confident -- which doesn't actually provide any meaningful information in terms of whether we'll get through the day without wasting time running back after an embarrassing wipe.

It doesn't matter WHAT role you play - get to know your team capabilities. It takes one pull (usually) and will lead to smooth sailing. If you're a DPS pulling for the tank, or a tank grabbing triple packs without knowing your Healer, or a Healer who can't find their DPS buttons during downtime, or the healing button during 'oh shit' time, then these things are better learned before you get to the 20minute mark and your fifteenth flame-war sentence before someone rages and nothing gets completed.

[Lucke]

I err on the side of caution and ask the healer what they want in terms of pull size. I always use cooldowns though. More often than not, I get healers that want me to pull big and 99% of the time, it's fine. If we die, I'll apologize and pull less. Some pulls you don't wanna pull big, like the Dogs in Ala Mhigo. If I pull everything up to the dogs, we'll prolly wipe since there's just so many bad guys eating my face, no matter how good the healer is, they can't keep up even with me using god mode and cooldowns.

[Romsca]

You're arguing against the "rush, rush, rush" lifestyle/mentality. You will meet people who only want the xp, rewards and money as quickly as they can as they have large time constraints on their lives. Spending extra minutes--insane as it sounds--is a big deal to some people trying to max out. Raids and Extreme/Savage Trials are the content of this game, everything else is just time sinks. Worse is the "vote to kick" system giving these people the power to remove anyone who doesn't go with their flow.

[Hayward]

You're arguing against the "rush, rush, rush" lifestyle/mentality. You will meet people who only want the xp, rewards and money as quickly as they can as they have large time constraints on their lives. Spending extra minutes--insane as it sounds--is a big deal to some people trying to max out. Raids and Extreme/Savage Trials are the content of this game, everything else is just time sinks. Worse is the "vote to kick" system giving these people the power to remove anyone who doesn't go with their flow.

Excuse us for not being "Pro" enough to care about your precious Raid schedules. 3 to 5 minutes' difference does not warrant tanks acting like meatheads in a "time sink". Have a seat with that mentality.

[Ramiren]

Excuse us for not being "Pro" enough to care about your precious Raid schedules. 3 to 5 minutes' difference does not warrant tanks acting like meatheads in a "time sink". Have a seat with that mentality.

There's nothing pro about it, I suck as a tank but even I can chain pull stuff.

I've mained healer in one form or another since beta and I'm levelling paladin right now. One thing I've noticed, is that tanks really can't win. If you take things slow, people complain all the damn time, however if you go fast you'll always run into that odd healer that doesn't have the gear or experience to keep up with even reasonable double pulls and then they complain too. You can't always just ask people if they want fast pulls especially on EU servers like mine, because the language system in this game sucks and doesn't take what you speak into account when putting a group together.

It's not about being a meathead, it's that even the tanks who don't want to do large pulls do so, because it's easier to deal with than the ensuing bitching.

[Aomine1992]

When you are sinking faster then Katy Perry's career then slow down a bit.

Lol best quote ever, but in all seriousness if my healer is new or returning I tend to go easy as the tank but slot of times those healers are like "pull more" or "pull everything" so I tend to ask the healer what they prefer if I don't get a response I do my pulls based off the dps if there are two melee absolutely not lol I would be out of CDs before all the mobs died but like a SMN and something else wit some aoe capabilities that don't suck then yes I will pull at least two groups at a time...

[Maeka]

So I did my first Expert Roulette (Kugane Castle) as WHM today and... meh.

Very first thing, the tank pulls two groups at once. Without even testing me. I'm wearing 297 (WHM Lv70 Quest gear on the left, Verity on the right) and it's my first time as WHM in the instance (though they couldn't have known that; I've tanked it on PLD before). We wipe on the first pull because I was 0.5 sec short on a Cure2 and the DRK drops dead. I apologize, and they don't seem to be in a bad mood about it, so cool.

Well, we go back in and the rest of the run is rather stressful, but nothing too bad until right after the 2nd boss, where he decides again to pull two whole groups of those crossbow+bomb mobs. He somehow loses threat on two of them and so I'm getting plugged with crossbow bolts, one of the DPS pulls one of the ones that was on me and now both me and a DPS are half dead, I'm chain-casting Cure2s and then... *WHAM*. Interrupted. The DRK drops dead before I get my next Cure2 out (I already used Tetragammaton, and Assize was on cooldown IIRC, not that Assize is capable of keeping the tank alive for ~6 seconds anyways even if it were up.

To the tank's credit, they apologized and admitted that was their mistake.

But, if we had just pulled single groups, the whole run would have went without a wipe and we would have saved 5 minutes, easy.

EDIT: The tank had about 45k health so I am going to assume mostly Verity with some Omega, because that's what my PLD has and I have ~45k too.