4.05 - Tank DPS comparison

[Daniel_Fury]

You assume 50 blood = 400 pot (out of grit) or 475 Pot (in grit).

From there it is easy to extrapolate pot/blood. Souleater grants 10 blood so anything that pushes it back a GCD costs potency.

You need to work out how much potency gain comes from 10 natural blood. You look at a natural blood spiller, how much potency you gain from that, divide it by 10 which is then added to souleater and divide by 3 for use per GCD.
By assuming 50 blood = 400 potentcy, you ignore the fact that blood spiller pushes your gcds forward by one each time so it is definitely not a raw 400 potency gain.

[DWolfwood]

50 blood = 400 potency if you use Bloodspiller, that is to say, the very thing he claimed to be a DPS loss. You can't advocate not using BloodSpiller to faster accumulate gauge...for your next Bloodspiller.

The argument is not about using Bloodspiller. Bloodspiller is a potency increase over our average GCD combo. What the math is proving is that it's a DPS loss to spend 2400MP to get an extra Bloodspiller(via TBN) versus using that MP on Dark Arts.

I'll correct and expand what Syzzle started. Hopefully it's not hard to follow:

/* Decimal places are truncated to the hundredth's place. */

Potency of 2400MP = 1 Dark Arts Action
=> 2400MP = 140 potency

Average GCD Potency = (HardSlash + SyphonStrike +Souleater) ÷ (Number of GCDs) // We'll hold off on applying potency from MP and Bloodgauge for now.
=> (150 + 250 + 300) ÷ (3) = 233.33

Potency of 50 Bloodgauge = Potency of Bloodspiller - Average GCD Potency // We'll hold off on applying the cost from MP and Bloodgauge for now.
=> 400 - 233.33 = 166.66

Potency of 1 Bloodgauge = 166.66 ÷ 50 = 3.33

MP and Bloodgauge Accumulation Spread Out Per GCD in Potency = (1200 MP + 10 Bloodgauge) ÷ (Number of GCDs)
=> (70 + 10 Bloodgauge) ÷ 3 // 70 potency is derived from dividing 140 by two, since 1200 is 1/2 of 2400.
=> (70 + 10 x 3.33) ÷ 3 // We insert the potency of a single Bloodgauge and multiply it by the factor of 10.
=> (70 + 33.33) ÷ 3
=> 103.33 ÷ 3 = 34.33

We now have everything we need to find our result:

The final potency of Bloodspiller = Potency of Bloodspiller - Average GCD Potency - Potency from Opportunity Cost
=> 400 - 233.33 - 34.33 = 132.23

132.23 < 140 // i.e. Bloodspiller < Dark Arts Potency

Therefore, the DPS gained from using 2400MP to obtain a single Bloodspiller is less than the potency gained from using 2400MP on a single Dark Arts.

[Reynhart]

The argument is not about using Bloodspiller. Bloodspiller is a potency increase over our average GCD combo. What the math is proving is that it's a DPS loss to spend 2400MP to get an extra Bloodspiller(via TBN) versus using that MP on Dark Arts.

Then your whole explanation with the "opportunity cost on blood gauge" is off-topic since using or not using Dark Arts changes nothing on what Blood you naturally gain.
What you should compare is two GCD chains where you spend your MP differently. And since Bloodspiller is now stronger on its own than DA-SS, I doubt it's still a DPS loss.

[Shinkyo]

Shinkyo u seem to pretty much know what your talkin bout on tanks , well I usually try to follow like xenos dps guides and stuff like that but for sb I literally cant find good rotations on any of the tanks without other people sayin that its not optimal if you could would you mind posting your rotation for each tank, I understand if you wouldnt its just no updated guides on the best tankin rotation at all from what Im seeing

I've taken this thread to Reddit and I've actually gone in details in term of rotation.
Link here

Keep in mind that what I do as rotation isn't necessarily min/maxed nor backed up by complex theorycrafting.
I do what makes the most sense to me to push my DPS and I manage to get good results.

[DWolfwood]

since Bloodspiller is now stronger on its own than DA-SS, I doubt it's still a DPS loss.

I've added the math to my previous comment. Needless to say, I didn't just pull this out of thin air. The more educated people are about the reality of the situation, the quicker we can be on the same page about what needs to be buffed, and why.

[Quor]

All that Bloodspiller potency math is very nice, but it makes one major assumption that is categorically untrue; it assumes you are constantly rolling your GCD while attacking what amounts to a massive wall of HP that has no mechanics to it. It's literally an on-paper theoretical approach to attacking an infinite-HP rock that will never attack back. As such, it all looks very good on paper but does it account for missing GCD's due to boss jumps? Having to dodge mechanics? Saving someones life via the absorb on TBN?

Saying "TBN is always a DPS loss over DA" goes too far. If you were to say "TBN is a DPS loss assuming you can maintain X amount of GCD uptime" then that would be more accurate. But as it stands, you (and supposedly the other, more learned individuals) are making a major statistical error in assuming full, 100% GCD rolling at all times, not to mention the application of conditional buffs like Balance, Spear, Brotherhood, TA etc. I'm guessing TBN would be a gain over DA if it meant you got an extra Bloodspiller activation during the 10 second TA window, even with the "opportunity cost" factored in.

[Chrono_Rising]

This isn't true.

4.0:

150+250(+70)+280 = 750
750 / 3 = 250
380(-140) = 240
A loss of -10 PPGCD.

4.01:

150+250(+70)+280 = 750
750 / 3 = 250
400(-140) = 260
A gain of 10 PPGCD.

4.05:

150+250(+70)+300 = 770
770 / 3 = 256.6666666....
400(-140) = 260
A gain of ~4 PPGCD.

I believe this calculation is slightly off because its not taking into account the potential of losing a natural bloodspiller.

Even if I'm wrong with my estimating (I doubt it but soon I will have free time to break this down), these calculations assume every TBN breaks miss one and that small positive becomes a large negative that will require 300 TBN breaking to balance out. We are playing the odds here, maybe it won't being an infrequent event, but it is there. I believe taking this into account and using some ball parking bloodspiller would need a 5 to 10 potency buff to break even with dark arts.

The blood calculation is slightly more detailed, and wasn't necessary to show to loss previously.

Not to mention, pld isn't paying for its utility, its not risking its dps. SE took a step in the right direction, but it needs more.

[Dj_Seaghost]

So don't use TBN unless it's the start of the fight or a mechanic in need of mitigation? So lost with all this math

[Kabooa]

Bloodspiller off the GCD would see a huge decrease in its power.

[Falar]

Bloodspiller off the GCD would see a huge decrease in its power.

Please explain.