Not again...

[Xenosan]

Maybe they got some dev who is just like every job is shit except WAR lol! Your guess is as good as mine.

Warbros bitched loud enough is all it was.

I wonder how much Path buff is, 20 potency or higher?

[Dizzy_Derp]

PLD main here and the argument 'but pld offers utility!!!' doesn't hold when you don't need it

Cool, let's give pld ALL the utility and the highest dps. Totally balanced. You should be I'm the dev team with your perfect sense of how to make any tank comp viable. Fukn genius here.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

but why couldn't it be Warrior for once :<

Because it makes no sense? They are supposed to be the Berserker tank that mitigates through damage. The idea is Paladin has stronger mitigation options and actually "tanks" while Warrior plays almost like a DPS with cooldowns. Paladin still has better utility and on par mitigation. Frankly, it's Dark Knight that could come out lacking here.

You can't bring all defensive utility and nice dps to one tank.
But playerbase think all is about dps now. All the time.
Gordias bring this in the mind, but don't tell it was the case on A9s to A12s pls...
Now you won't change this bad mentality about tank dps now. and it make PLD to want equal dps instead of more defensive utility, because the first care of the playerbase is the dps, by the way, load of midcore savage raiders, think only about dps and put as a priority before the mecanics, it slow the progress a lot.
PLD is fine i think even after this little nerf, but how to change mind of the playerbase about dps. i can understand why PLD want dps so strongly.

It isn't the playerbase but the game mechanics themselves. Mitigation and healing both have a threshold, rendering them useless passed a certain point. Damage, on the other hand, is infinite. You never don't want damage. Creator actually did more to encourage the DPS meta than Gordias ever did because it was tuned low enough people could more easily get away with pushing out higher numbers without worrying about mitigation. If I can survive everything in Deliverance, why would I stay in Defiance? It only hurts my own damage, which in turn, lowers the raid DPS. The mentality isn't bad. It's players who follow it religiously without first adjusting and developing their skill. My first tank clear in Savage saw me keep Grit on the entire fight in Mr. Target dummy extreme. (A9S). Even now, I'm only rotating in a few Slaying accessories as I level to get a feel for where I'll need to mitigate. Not that it matters since they're fixing that hopefully.

Put simply. Tank priorities are, in order:

Aggro management
Mitigation
Damage

When the first two come as easily as they do, we switch to optimizing our damage.

[Zumi]

Damage output is always better than utility in ffxiv. Sure you can DV an aoe attack however that damage would of gotten healed up by a healer if the ability was not used. Having more defensive utility doesn't really do much in a game where to win you need to beat dps checks. After you outgear something all of PLDs mitigation and utility doesn't help you and when trying to beat it people want more dps so they can kill the boss faster which is the problem.

Tanks really should do about the same dps but play differently or have a different feel to them to avoid the we are just going to take the 2 tanks who do the most dps.

[Velthice]

Cool, let's give pld ALL the utility and the highest dps. Totally balanced. You should be I'm the dev team with your perfect sense of how to make any tank comp viable. Fukn genius here.

I mean, that was the state of war in heavensward and nobody batted an eye. Storm's path debuff was straight busted. Throw is slashing, the best cooldowns (still the best, vengeance is the best mitigation cooldown bar none for time and effect, and holmgang is better than hallowed imo since you can use it 3-4 times a fight), and the highest damage and that was heavensward war and everyone was fine with it. They just said lolpld and went on their way. But when shoe was on the other foot for even a second, oh lord did they scream foul.

[Brannigan]

Midas a7s and a8s are probably good examples of fights where pld's extra physical mitigation, divine veil and hallowed ground actually make them worth taking over drk unless you're doing speedkills where drk's higher dps makes it the optimal choice.

A8S is a tossup imo. Paladin made you a safer on late-phase tank busters (though you can probably just have warrior cheese them with Holmgang/all their shit) and lets you cheese land mines. Dark Knight let you neuter his AOEs, which are just as dangerous. A7S is similar where HG will let you cheese a couple tank busters but the real threat in that fight is actually Sizzlebeam and his AOE stuff. Divine Veil was wayyyyy too slow to make a difference vs DRK's int down/Reprisal. I did both these fights as paladin, but I think my group would have gotten them weeks earlier if I bit the bullet and played DRK again.

Unless they significantly lengthen the cast time, you should still be able to get 5 holy spirits in. You would just lose the ability to use ogcds between casts.

I'm really hoping they just nerf the potency and don't fuck with the cast time because oGCDs isn't even the biggest loss of being forced into a 2s+ cast. It's movement. Even on easy shit like Susanoo, half of my Requiescat windows line up with mechanics. Also, that's a longer time for which you're unable to block.

Well as someone who has done savage I would not expect for you to have that level of ignorance. Pld was out of the meta because of the meta itself not the class.

Also this is from a couple pages back but it's kind of incorrect. Both the party composition problems and paladin's weakness were to blame. Remember that at the start of HW, TP was an issue, potencies were lower, Clemency had a longer cast time, Divine Veil had a longer cooldown, Cover was still useless, Shield Oath had a higher penalty, and I think even Shield Swipe was still a GCD. Dark Knight's weakness to physical was also much less than paladin's weakness to magic, and paladin kind of cut it close on cooldowns even as late as Alexander Prime (which was doable, but unpleasant, and DRK was still better in every way). Really their only advantages were HG and Sheltron, which was amazing against Living Liquid but very hard to time and also completely useless against Manipulator and a few other fights.

[SunAurel]

Cool, let's give pld ALL the utility and the highest dps. Totally balanced. You should be I'm the dev team with your perfect sense of how to make any tank comp viable. Fukn genius here.

where exactl ydo you see me saying pld should have the highest damage? I said WAR and DRK should deal the highest damage but if they scale pld for grp utility then pld needs something that gives the group a bit of damage boost because mitigation can only get you so far. PLD as invididual should not do more dps than a drk or war, but it should benefit the group dps somehow so that the deficit gets a bit evened out during let's say burst phases with a 5% dmg buff lasting for 20 seconds on every party member

what makes no sense is nerfing the pld's damage additionally to buffing DRK and WAR because if it falls behind too far in damage-utility, then it's only good for the first 3 weeks and i can put my pld back in the closet again and have to play fucking DARK KNIGHT again because else I'll be a burden to my team and that is far removed from balance as well

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Tanks really should do about the same dps but play differently or have a different feel to them to avoid the we are just going to take the 2 tanks who do the most dps.

This only applies to speed kills. Even groups like Elysium were still rotating in Casters throughout Creator because people liked them better and they were both incredibly strong despite not being "meta". If Paladin remains competitive with the other tanks, most good players aren't going to care. It wasn't shunned in 3.x due to damage, but it lacked any mitigation against magic based damage and had no aoe to speak of. Therefore, Dark Knight was overwhelmingly superior in more fights.

[Dizzy_Derp]

Also this is from a couple pages back but it's kind of incorrect. Both the party composition problems and paladin's weakness were to blame.

Pld had no way to effectively deal with magic damage, they do now. Tp was only an issue on bosses that have constant uptime like a7 and a9 but that was also fixed this tier. Yes I did leave that out of the op. More of an oversight than anything. but as someone who ran with a pld for all of Midas and up until a12 when we just couldn't justify having one anymore, I can safely say pld was not in the terrible place people though it was. Mitigation was a non-issue with forced tank swapps and the utility was great. my pld was out dpsing all but the 95th and up percentile drks so dps was alo not a real drawback. I think the issue right now is the same as it was back then, a bunch of people who are no where near being able top play their classes even close tho thier max potential, complaining about what their classes can or cant do do at when played near the maximum potential. Its dumb.

[Falar]

While I lobbied hard for Dark Knight changes, I did not want them doing this to PLD. Job was fine.