Not again...

[Lyth]

A lot will depend on how these changes are implemented. PLD has enough of a dps advantage at the moment that it will probably still break even after the changes, which is fine. I think the idea of balancing damage output against utility is silly. Personal dps should be balanced against raid dps boosts. Utility should be balanced against utility.

Intervention and TBN do not boost raid dps. If you want a job to do less personal dps, then it needs to offer raid dps boosts, such as slashing, embolden, and trick. If you want it to do more personal dps, then it shouldn't offer those things. DPS jobs are typically balanced on this principle, and the same should hold true for other roles as well. This was one of the balance problems with WAR in HW, in that it offered both the only raid dps boost across tanks, and also offered the highest personal dps.

Utility is different. Raid mitigation tools such as Passage, Veil, and Reprisal influence your ability to progress at lower gear levels, and should be balanced across tanks independently of this.

[SyzzleSpark]

snip

Well here's the thing, they took 90% of WAR and DRK's utility away and they're highly unlikely to just hand it back over. I think most DRK/WAR mains understand this and so they're asking for potency buffs instead, or mechanical changes to make said potency easier to output. So assuming all tanks do the same damage, PLD has all these toys that benefit your raid, and the others have... TBN and a redundant slashing debuff... and now we're back to square one. With all the bells and whistles that they added to PLD, WAR and DRK could have easily kept Reprisal and Path and they would have been balanced. But they didn't, and moreover, they no longer even have a DPS advantage so... what are they gonna do, give them Trick Attack clones? Then you'd be back to HW and PLD would be benched. *shrug*

Many people think utility and damage should be balanced, and not just casual/MC folks either, I cite the most recent SOTR for reference.

[Tegernako]

So assuming all tanks do the same damage, PLD has all these toys that benefit your raid, and the others have... TBN and a redundant slashing debuff... and now we're back to square one. With all the bells and whistles that they added to PLD, WAR and DRK could have easily kept Reprisal and Path and they would have been balanced. But they didn't, and moreover, they no longer even have a DPS advantage so... what are they gonna do, give them Trick Attack clones? Then you'd be back to HW and PLD would be benched. *shrug*

And those times when TBN doesn't break? lol

Such utility.