Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[NanaWiloh]

Incorrect. You can only gain lilies when you cast cure/cure2 while in combat. Based on the exact wording of the tool-tip, it may also be impossible to gain a lily proc or confession stack unless the player is missing hp at the time the cure lands.

Referenced from the E3 build screenshots: https://imgur.com/gallery/5RYol

Well thats good to know. Thanks for the correction

[magnanimousCynic]

snip

Unless someone else jumps to it, I'll probably make the thread a week after Official Launch. Should be long enough for us to level to 70 and experience the content and build our opinions on whether or not the content requires enough healing to make Lilies more plentiful and therefore more useful than what we currently view it as.

[Serilda]

(And don't get me wrong, they are AMAZING for 4-man dungeons, it should be fun as hell in there.

But only SB dungeons, because in the earlier ones we'll feel hobbled unless we're running them completely overgeared with other veterans (which I don't do, because it's boring). I do think it has potential in PVP too, it's just that PVP and Expert Roulette alone can't keep me interested unless off peak PVP queue times improve massively in future.

For me it's not a mechanical throughput issue (I'm not a hardcore raider and I'm not going to pretend to be one). It's a satisfaction thing. As a long term healer who takes a lot of pride in my versatility, I don't feel satisfied by the cut-down new WHM, even if there are clearly some overall improvements to the core game system - which are also improvements for AST at the same time.

As a long-suffering pad player I seriously never thought I'd be complaining about having barely any buttons to press ;p

[Semirhage]

I find all of the "shut up and stop being so dramatic" posts pretty tiresome considering the fact that WHM is the most nerfed job in the game by a considerable margin. At this point even trivial nerfs are going to pull at least a "REALLY!?" from WHM loyalists. The drama tantrums aren't single-issue. There's a multi-expansion trend. Nerfs to Medica 2 (while the fairy still has the ability to throw out an AOE regen that's similar to the old version), Holy, Stoneskin, etc. Vanishingly few nerfs to the already widely-considered OP Scholar while those nerfs took place. Extra attention to the new job that progressed into buffing them to Scholar levels of OP. Extra salt rubbed in there because Astro's base kit is pretty much WHM's, but the original spent the previous expansion getting clubbed with the nerf bat and the newbie got buffed to a point they're arguably stronger than the original kit.

My point here isn't to go through a laundry list of rants about some petty issues people barely remember from years ago, it's to remind that WHMs have years of "why are they nerfing that? Ugh I guess we'll deal" job adjustment patches. Scholars have been allowed to remain OP for so long that I know more than one career WHM who thought that maybe we'd sit on that throne for a patch or two...but now see our kit with a starglobe getting an OP crown while we get nerfed again with a huge round of skill removal. Jealousy is petty, but it's there.

I enjoy the class lore of WHM. I'm not really interested in Astro. I'm getting bored of being nerfed. I will likely swap mains until I see the dev team make mid-expansion adjustments to WHM that don't begin with "potency reduced by..." I don't think this is unreasonable or over the top.

[Reiryuu]

I find all of the "shut up and stop being so dramatic" posts pretty tiresome considering the fact that WHM is the most nerfed job in the game by a considerable margin. At this point even trivial nerfs are going to pull at least a "REALLY!?" from WHM loyalists.

It's back to the Tanaka Inquisition era all over again. You thank the stars it wasn't your turn to get the nerf bat, berate those complaining in hopes the inquisition doesn't come after you next.

NO ONE EXPECTS THE NERFISH INQUISITION!!!

* This post is, in part, sarcastic.

[Leigaon]

I find all of the "shut up and stop being so dramatic" posts pretty tiresome considering the fact that WHM is the most nerfed job in the game by a considerable margin.

I enjoy the class lore of WHM. I'm not really interested in Astro. I'm getting bored of being nerfed. I will likely swap mains until I see the dev team make mid-expansion adjustments to WHM that don't begin with "potency reduced by..." I don't think this is unreasonable or over the top.

The reason there's such backlash is because of the way the majority word it. You have some people here in this thread that have made wonderful points. It's much easier to listen to someone who goes "Here is the issue..." compared to someone who says "Trash..simply trash..I mean..fire them all..." Theorizing and saying "This is the most likely result" vs standing on solid ground saying how bad things are is the only way.

Not saying either side is right or wrong. As a white mage myself since 1.0, I liked reading what others had to say up until they get cruel with it. We know the potential problems thanks to some of the people here, and these issues might be 90% dead on, but until we go out and play there's that possibility that it's not as bad.

So all these people who are saying "stop" are mainly saying how they hear you, understand how things could play out like this and maybe you're right. All they're asking is for is for you who theorized so heavily (and have done a wonderful job) to do the same with full access to the content.

The pre-release problem theorizing is done, we know what's there. Now lets wait to see what comes of it. You can continue to test, guess on possible outcomes. It's when they go beyond theories and show it off as 100%, start acting cruel and repeating it 100x others just..don't care anymore.

Or maybe this is because the entire ordeal is like talking to my wife. She will bring home food, taste it and tell me how horrible it is for the next 10 - 15 minutes. After the first two times I don't care, I'll taste it soon and we can see if it was just her or am I part of the group too. Sometimes she's right, sometimes she's wrong. Wonderful, we've gotten a taste of white mage..people don't like the taste. Now lets sample the full course to make sure, then you can rant and complain until your hearts can't take anymore.

Then again it's your right to complain now still, just know it doesn't come off as reasonable but as a red faced child screaming in the toy isle.

To those who made the valid arguments, thank you because those might have helped in some last minute decisions. Either way..see you in StormBlood!

[Starflake]

Quote

What part of the proclaimed OP Scholar is there? We are nerfed in Bane, Shadow Flare, Fey Illumination, Aetherflow and Embrace. Miasma II, Blizzard II and Super Virus are deleted. Chain Strategem will more than likely end up adding a 2% extra crit chance. The deletion of current Cleric stance makes the pet less relevant either. So what is it about Scholar now that is truly OP and how is WHM nerfed considerably harder, really?

[SuzakuCMX]

What part of the proclaimed OP Scholar is there? We are nerfed in Bane, Shadow Flare, Fey Illumination, Aetherflow and Embrace. Miasma II, Blizzard II and Super Virus are deleted. Chain Strategem will more than likely end up adding a 2% extra crit chance. The deletion of current Cleric stance makes the pet less relevant either. So what is it about Scholar now that is truly OP and how is WHM nerfed considerably harder, really?

Yeah idk why people are whining about WHM when SCH got the nerfbazooka and AST is really the only healer that got anything that looks like a buff. But "WHM dead" tho.

[Ryahask]

Yeah idk why people are whining about WHM when SCH got the nerfbazooka and AST is really the only healer that got anything that looks like a buff. But "WHM dead" tho.

Maybe because SCH lost their crazy aoe damage which was a luxury, not an essential component of their kit while still receiving incredible new abilities and barely losing anything to the role system. SCH gets better single target healing which has always been a weakness of theirs, an amazing utility heal that people aren't talking about enough in Excogitation, a boost to their heal efficiency in the swap to Cleric's stance, new damage utility, and they get access to 2 incredible role skills they never had before.

By comparison, WHM lost more skills than any job in the game to the cross-role system as a Job with an already sparse kit. Their only new ability which isn't simply more overhealing is a shield, for which they lost a shield (Stoneskin). No new utility, none of their previous weaknesses covered. The closest thing to a meaningful NEW ability WHM is getting is in Thin Air, which, realistically, does nothing in difficult content unless MP values have been inflated to make it valuable.

[SuzakuCMX]

Maybe because SCH lost their crazy aoe damage which was a luxury, not an essential component of their kit

They lost 2 DoTs; one from their main kit and one from cross-role while also losing a ton of AoE damage

SCH gets better single target healing which has always been a weakness of theirs

Since when? They've always lacked in AoE healing and been the best single target healer due to stacking Physick and Fairy heals with Lustrate and Fey Illumination lol. Embrace lost 50 potency btw.

Their only new ability which isn't simply more overhealing is a shield, for which they lost a shield (Stoneskin)

10% MP 3 Second Cast vs. 15% No Cost Instant Cast? Sounds good.

none of their previous weaknesses covered.

MP Management?

The closest thing to a meaningful NEW ability WHM is getting is in Thin Air, which, realistically, does nothing in difficult content unless MP values have been inflated to make it valuable.

Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?