Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This passive MP reduction used to perturb me immensely for the majority of of 3.X after the AST potency buffs and was further exacerbated by the LA buff.

Now with the way the healer kits are shaping, this passive doesn't bug me as much. Every healer seems to have their niche in terms of sustainability so we'll see how it all shapes up.

Do they really though? Because I am struggling to find White Mage's niche. They...

- are not the strongest single target healer
- are the worst mitigation healer
- are the worst utility healer
- are debatably better at aoe healing

Therefore, we are left with damage. This could work were it significant enough to offset the aforementioned drawbacks, however that just isn't the case with Balance still existing. All in all, the only niche I see them filling are in casual content. Of course, we'll see what potential changes come in a week.

[Xaen]

I sort of feel that they have tried to condense down the skills but also remove some of the unique aspects that make each Healer Individual healers.

Divine Seal for me should have stayed as a WHM skill giving it the individualism away from the other healers and largesse been accessed as a cross-role for the other 2.

Esuna losing the 20% passive this should have remained again because of the above reason.

The current Lilly System needs something linked to the confession system such as

Each Lilly grants a 5-second extended duration to confession stacks.

3 Lilly's Held increases confession proc chance by up to 2.5 - 3% per Lilly.

[Xaen]

First experience with 1000 character limit and i already hate it.

Adding Divine Benison on 3 Lilly stacks to give an Area of effect Sheild 15% to first Target and 5-10% to the rest.

Raise Added stone skin effect when used with 1-3 Lilly's Stone skin effect % based (Could add Lilly consumed here as well).

Thin Air - Added benefit of En-Aero to all party members for 10 seconds.

Plenary Indulgence 10% chance confession stacks will not be consumed upon use.

Additional Skill that upon 3 Lilly stacks Casts Regen on all party members at 50% reduced potency Longer CD to compensate(All Lillys consumed upon use of this skill)

[magnanimousCynic]

snip

you can break the 1k limit by editing a post. I think the true limit for a post is 10k characters.

[Ghishlain]

Do they really though? Because I am struggling to find White Mage's niche. They...

- are not the strongest single target healer
- are the worst mitigation healer
- are the worst utility healer
- are debatably better at aoe healing

Therefore, we are left with damage. This could work were it significant enough to offset the aforementioned drawbacks, however that just isn't the case with Balance still existing. All in all, the only niche I see them filling are in casual content. Of course, we'll see what potential changes come in a week.

I've been trying to do some potency crunches based off the current numbers and here are my results. Please be advised these are with currently known numbers that are subject to change at release and I wouldn't mind other players to proof read my work either since nothing is perfect.

I've tried to simulate total healing potential over a course of three minutes using a 2.5s GCD and with 0s oGCDs just for the sake of easy calculations. In total all three healers get 72 GCDs every 3 minutes to work with the one exception PoM gives WHM two additional GCD (they get 8 GCDs in the same time frame all other healers would get 6 with the 15s duration of PoM). I've also tried to account for Largresse up time and any beneficial procs such as Enhanced Benefic and Freecure. I've made notes on some of my thoughts in the right most column as well. I didn't include Lily's in the calculation though overall this simulation would generate the WHM 21 Lilies and more than enough to fuel Divine Benison.

Please also be advised that in general healer's never have 100% healing uptime and this simulation is only to show absolute potentials. How they'll be applied in practice will be completely up to raid design and any number changes that'll occur with release.

I've split the result into three categories - absolute total potency; total potency using purely oGCDs and HoT (free / passive healing); and total MP consumed and you can find that below:

D.AST
Total Potency: 57,442
HoT / oGCD Potency: 19,868
MP Consumed: 46,560

N.AST
Total Potency: 56,414
HoT / oGCD Potency: 8,500
MP Consumed: 46,560

SCH
Total Potency: 54,270
HoT / oGCD Potency: 20,420
MP Consumed: 54,000

WHM
Total Potency: 53,875
HoT / oGCD Potency: 21,155
MP Consumed: 40,560


So in general WHM has the lowest overall single target potential but has some of the highest, I will say, passive potential in their oGCDs and HoTs. They also consume the lowest MP out of the three healers to reach their potency numbers by a fairly decent margin (at least 10% lower than all other healers). Take into account that the numbers don't account for Thin Air either and I don't account for MP regeneration tools. In general, I'd surmise that WHMs are now the energizer bunnies of the healers and can go on for days up days of healing.

Just like there were advocates of adjusting playstyles to allow for AST/SCH to take hold, raids employing a WHM will need to change from the current optimal strategy of having healer's share responsibilities and double down on the Main Heal/Off Heal strategy employed greatly in the 2.0 era. WHMs will thrive in taking a higher responsibility of healing just by the nature of their way their kit works. It is counter intuitive to how healers are played in general and is also the crux of the main complaints towards the current WHM kit.

I don't think WHM is badly off one would think but the kit is extremely counter-intuitive mess compared to the streamlined nature of AST and SCH and thus harder to simulate compared to their competition.

[OcieKo]

So in general WHM has the lowest overall single target potential but has some of the highest, I will say, passive potential in their oGCDs and HoTs. They also consume the lowest MP out of the three healers to reach their potency numbers by a fairly decent margin (at least 10% lower than all other healers). Take into account that the numbers don't account for Thin Air either and I don't account for MP regeneration tools. In general, I'd surmise that WHMs are now the energizer bunnies of the healers and can go on for days up days of healing.

Just like there were advocates of adjusting playstyles to allow for AST/SCH to take hold, raids employing a WHM will need to change from the current optimal strategy of having healer's share responsibilities and double down on the Main Heal/Off Heal strategy employed greatly in the 2.0 era. WHMs will thrive in taking a higher responsibility of healing just by the nature of their way their kit works. It is counter intuitive to how healers are played in general and is also the crux of the main complaints towards the current WHM kit.

I don't think WHM is badly off one would think but the kit is extremely counter-intuitive mess compared to the streamlined nature of AST and SCH and thus harder to simulate compared to their competition.

A few questions about it.
I get not including Lightspeed/Thin Air to an extent since using it could be considered extra. Lucid Dreaming would cancel out so moot.
Tho Lustrate and Assize are unusable without the MP recovery, so its harder to ignore that part of MP gain in the calculations. On the note of Lustrate, why 6 instead of 9? In a 3 min test it should end just before being able to use your 4th Aetherflow for uses 10-12. I'm running this under the assumption the test begins with the need to use Aetherflow to get 3 charges.
Since its a single target test, how are you calculating confession stacks per use of Plenary Indulgence?
Assuming as such, but anyways, was Dissipation ignored in favor of embrace count? (practically speaking probably a better idea for a SCH, to keep the faerie over the healing boost)

And WHM has always felt like the strongest solo healer, to me at least, this math at least seems to agree with that. Time will tell if another Odin Trial type fight can prove it to be true in the 4.X series.

[javid]

some nice sh*t.

Now we cooking with oil!! Finally some data to interpret !!
WHM
Cure II potency is 700. Also in row 49 you have a typo, your cure potency went down with largesse.

I know both Benediction and Divine Benison have no "potency", but what is your normalization practice for those? For example your Benny has normalized at 1300; but 1300 potency heal couldn't heal a tank from 1% to 100%. Similar with DB it's effect scales with HP and not potency so it depends who you're using it on.

Lets take a tank at 40k ehp (ilv270 tank stance), and we're healing with a ilv 270 set of gear. current 400 potency Cure = 5500 hp. 40k/5.5= 7.27 Cures; 7.27*400 potency= 2908 effective potency (healing 40k ehp). note: benedictions effective potency scales up the lower the healer's ilv.

Likewise with DB, 15% of 40k is 6k. Using current Cure at ilv270 to normalize, we get 6k/5.5k= 1.091 *Cure = 1.091*400 potency= 436 potency (I know this is a bit off topic but look how weak a 15% shield is on a tank with 40k!! HP ....but we crying about losing a 10% shield used on a nominal party member with half the max HP...)

SCH
You got 2 crit Adlo's out of 9 attempts? And one of them happened to be with largesse active . Since you're using Eos then you have to include Fey illumination (extremely potent skill b/c it buffs everybody's heals not just the sch's) . Largesse last for 40 sec in a 3min window; if you're using a 2.5 GCD that's only 16 GCDs under the effect of largesse; but you have 14 phy + 4 adlo under the effect of largesse?

AST
I think u have to revisit these numbers. Aspect benefic is 200 potency heals, then based on your sect either gives 18 sec of 140 potency (diurnal), or it erects a shield equal to 300% of the heal (Noc). So Diurnal should be (200 + 6*140)*1.1 =1144 (which you have this one right). Noc should be (200+3*200)*1.1= 880; but you got 920.
Also the large+Syn on Noc Aspect Benefic. Synastry provide 40% of pure heals, so it won't influence the potency of the shield erected. You'll get the 10% from sect, 20% from largesse, those two will influence the potency of the shield, but the 40% from Synastry will be calculated after the 30%
buff (not 30+40% but 1.3*.4) (and the animation suggests the same if go and test it out right now). This would make Aspect Benefic while under noc and using largesse and synastry have a total potency of (200+ 3*200)*1.3 +0.4*(1.3*200) = 1144 potency.

(I'm out of time...)

[Ghishlain]

Now we cooking with oil!! Finally some data to interpret !!
WHM
Cure II potency is 700. Also in row 49 you have a typo, your cure potency went down with largesse.

I know both Benediction and Divine Benison have no "potency", but what is your normalization practice for those? For example your Benny has normalized at 1300; but 1300 potency heal couldn't heal a tank from 1% to 100%. Similar with DB it's effect scales with HP and not potency so it depends who you're using it on.

Lets take a tank at 40k ehp (ilv270 tank stance), and we're healing with a ilv 270 set of gear. current 400 potency Cure = 5500 hp. 40k/5.5= 7.27 Cures; 7.27*400 potency= 2908 effective potency (healing 40k ehp). note: benedictions effective potency scales up the lower the healer's ilv.

Likewise with DB, 15% of 40k is 6k. Using current Cure at ilv270 to normalize, we get 6k/5.5k= 1.091 *Cure = 1.091*400 potency= 436 potency (I know this is a bit off topic but look how weak a 15% shield is on a tank with 40k!! HP ....but we crying about losing a 10% shield used on a nominal party member with half the max HP...)

Before getting into the math, I think it's important to note that I don't recommend calculating potencies towards eHP. If a cure heals for 4K but because of Shield Oath we state the cure actually heals for 5K eHP, it's a visual misnomer and opens things up to misinterpretation. Likewise, perceived eHP values change based on what CDs are being used. IE - Rampart also decreases damage by 20% so thus one could interpret this as "any healing done would be increased by 25%" which isn't the case all the time. We don't want these inconsistencies when we're trying to accurately gauge how the kits interact.

So, my Benediction Math and Divine Benison math will be adjusted to be more suitable but here's what I'm going for right now. The base tank HP is approximately 33K in full i270 gear.

For Benediction I made the assumption that you would be using it when the tank has approximately 25% HP remaining. 33,000 x 0.75 = 24,750 HP recovered. If a 400 potency cure is approximately 5.5K we math out (24,750 / 5,500)*400 = 1,800 potency in a single Benediction. I'll update the sheet to reflect this.

We can do a similar adjustment for Divine Benison. 33,000 x 0.15 = 4,950 and then (4,950/5,500)*400 = 360 potency. I'll make the adjustment here as well.

SCH
You got 2 crit Adlo's out of 9 attempts? And one of them happened to be with largesse active . Since you're using Eos then you have to include Fey illumination (extremely potent skill b/c it buffs everybody's heals not just the sch's) . Largesse last for 40 sec in a 3min window; if you're using a 2.5 GCD that's only 16 GCDs under the effect of largesse; but you have 14 phy + 4 adlo under the effect of largesse?

I put two Crits just because. I didn't have a fair way to distribute it for the time so I just chalked that one up to "RNG" at the time. I'll make the adjustment in the following:

Under the effect of Largesse, the SCH will use Adlo at the beginning and end of the duration for maximum effect, so two per Largesse. Let's just say you can get one crit out of all the Adlo's in the simulation (not a far cry when we should probably have approximately 10% crit) and I'll chalk that up while Largesse is active.

I've adjusted the number of Physick's under Langreese to reflect the change since it would indeed be 16 GCDs while under the effect of Langresse.

In terms of Fey Illumination, since it affects both healers the total potency increase would be in similar magnitude for both healers and for 8-mans, not something you want to gauge in a SCH-only-vacuum - so it's been omitted for those reasons.

AST
I think u have to revisit these numbers. Aspect benefic is 200 potency heals, then based on your sect either gives 18 sec of 140 potency (diurnal), or it erects a shield equal to 300% of the heal (Noc). So Diurnal should be (200 + 6*140)*1.1 =1144 (which you have this one right). Noc should be (200+3*200)*1.1= 880; but you got 920.
Also the large+Syn on Noc Aspect Benefic. Synastry provide 40% of pure heals, so it won't influence the potency of the shield erected. You'll get the 10% from sect, 20% from largesse, those two will influence the potency of the shield, but the 40% from Synastry will be calculated after the 30%
buff (not 30+40% but 1.3*.4) (and the animation suggests the same if go and test it out right now). This would make Aspect Benefic while under noc and using largesse and synastry have a total potency of (200+ 3*200)*1.3 +0.4*(1.3*200) = 1144 potency.

(I'm out of time...)

I didn't apply Largesse to Aspected Benefic in Nocturnal so I did add that. I actually didn't apply Largesse appropriately for the Aspected Benefic cast in Dirunal either so I corrected as well.

Nocturnal Sect's Japanese tooltips gives 15% healing which is why the math would be (200+3*200)*1.15 = 920 instead of 880. You can find the tooltips here. It would make sense that Nocturnal and Diurnal would have separate healing bonuses under the assumption that if they both were the same, why not just give the potency on the skills the direct boost? Since S-E didn't do that it would logically follow that the sects would have different bonuses (admittedly, S-E isn't always a logical bunch either).

In terms of the rest you'd need to split up Nocturnal with Syn and Largesse up, you'd need to split into three parts. The base heal, the shield, and the Syn. I combined the base heal and shield as a 4x multiplier since (x + 3x) = 4x and separated the Syn term. Once you include the 15% boost instead of 10% boost you'll end up with 1,214 total potency.

Once all is said and done the total changes amount to is:

D.AST
Total Potency: 57,686
HoT / oGCD Potency: 20,112
MP Consumed: 46,560

N.AST
Total Potency: 57,222
HoT / oGCD Potency: 8,500
MP Consumed: 46,560

SCH
Total Potency: 55,314
HoT / oGCD Potency: 22,374
MP Consumed: 54,000

WHM
Total Potency: 53,730
HoT / oGCD Potency: 21,010
MP Consumed: 40,560

[edit] As an FYI, Largesse and Nocturnal bonuses will be calculated as multiplicative and not additive. So Noturnal's 15% + Largeese 20% would be 38% total bonus, not 35%. You can do similar testing currently with Synestry and Nocturnal since Synestry still retains the potency bonus ATM.

[AlphaSonic]

snip

With those results what I see is that even though WHM spends less MP, AST heals more and provides buffs to the party.

[Ghishlain]

With those results what I see is that even though WHM spends less MP, AST heals more and provides buffs to the party.

Yep, pretty much this. Whether the higher MP cost starts to become a detriment to a static will depend on the content design and healer aptitude.

Bear in mind that WHM's oGCDs and HoTs still out performs D.AST by a slim margin though also note that WHM's Plenary Indulgence makes up approximately 20% of that total potency and in order to get those stacks, you need to be healing your target.