Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by Metsonm

We'd love to do as much damage as an AST plus a balanced raid all on our own, but we accept that that is such a disparity that it would be crazy numbers.

Full circle utility issue :/

Originally Posted by Slaine_Fray

There's a comment in an interview about SAM having more dps then other jobs but to make up the difference it lacks utility. I'm afraid WHM is the healer equivalent, It's just their chosen mentality going forward at the current time.

The problem is, no one wants extra healing. At the end of the day the other heals will be able to heal content without it.

Thank you. You understand. If someone wants utility in their kit, there are classes that now carry plenty of it. However , not all classes have utility, and not all classes should. What's the point of having different classes if they all are the same?

Originally Posted by xNewbx

Thank you. You understand. If someone wants utility in their kit, there are classes that now carry plenty of it. However , not all classes have utility, and not all classes should. What's the point of having different classes if they all are the same?

But it also makes WHM near useless in raid content compared to other healers. SCH and AST can heal just fine, but bring utility. SAM will probably be fine if it does a good amount of DPS because utility isn't that important for a DPS to have (except for slash debuff and such).

Maybe the extra DPS from WHM will be useful in raids... I hope so, but we'll see.

Originally Posted by BroodingFicus

The thing is, no, all classes should not be the same. They shouldn't give WHM some party dps boost or some other healers utility to bring them current. They need to give them their own identity, which has been a complaint since HW dropped. The issue is, Yoshi and Square seem hell bent on making that identity 'pure healer' and that is not healthy for the job or the game. .

Given 3 healers, if one of them is a pure healer and the other 2 are not, then the pure healer will either be mandatory or irrelevant. This is bad game design.

Then figure that AST has very nearly the same healing throughput (effective heal per second) as a WHM, and even that flawed intention of identity for WHM is shown to be false. It is incredibly ironic that the one thing the 'pure healer' can legitimately do better than the other healers is higher/longer sustained DPS.

If WHM had an actual identity now, then much could be forgiven or looked over, at least by me. But there isn't one.

Originally Posted by BroodingFicus

They need to give [WHM] their own identity, which has been a complaint since HW dropped. The issue is, Yoshi and Square seem hell bent on making that identity 'pure healer' and that is not healthy for the job or the game. You can't make content where so much healing is required that only a WHM can manage because that would obviously be ridiculous. Every healer has to be able to heal all content to a reasonable degree so bigger heal numbers is superfluous.

I think this is where the community and dev team mentality diverge. The assumption always becomes 'Pure Healer' = 'Bigger Heals', and nobody is willing to think about other direct-path solutions.

And that's what they're delivering. Look at what they've presented with WHM so far. More oGCD heals with no MP cost. Lower cooldowns on oGCD heals. We've kept our existing passive heals. Potential healing bonuses on party members that are actively taking damage more often than their counterparts (confessions).

They're giving us the tools to spend fewer real and virtual resources on healing. WHM is efficient with it's MP. Efficient with it's GCDs. Efficient with the players attention. Efficient with it's commitment to whatever task it's performing at that exact moment. We get the job done, then move on to doing something else.

It's not as clever or powerful as some SCH and AST abilities, but I'm not entirely convinced it won't be satisfying or effective.

Originally Posted by Kethic

I think this is where the community and dev team mentality diverge. The assumption always becomes 'Pure Healer' = 'Bigger Heals', and nobody is willing to think about other direct-path solutions.

And that's what they're delivering. Look at what they've presented with WHM so far. More oGCD heals with no MP cost. Lower cooldowns on oGCD heals. We've kept our existing passive heals. Potential healing bonuses on party members that are actively taking damage more often than their counterparts (confessions).

They're giving us the tools to spend fewer real and virtual resources on healing. WHM is efficient with it's MP. Efficient with it's GCDs. Efficient with the players attention. Efficient with it's commitment to whatever task it's performing at that exact moment. We get the job done, then move on to doing something else.

It's not as clever or powerful as some SCH and AST abilities, but I'm not entirely convinced it won't be satisfying or effective.

Where is the point in this if the other two healers can get the job done just as well, if not better, but also bring something else on top of it? There is none. Efficiency won't get you anywhere when somebody else can do your job even while NOT being efficient. Also, I wouldn't really call what they showed super efficient, either... too much RNG, too much usage of skills required I most definitely DON'T want to spam. Efficiency looks different to me, sorry.

Originally Posted by xNewbx

Thank you. You don't understand.

Fixed that for you.

Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Where is the point in this if the other two healers can get the job done just as well, if not better, but also bring something else on top of it? There is none.

That is the question and the assumption, now, isn't it? Why would a healer want more flexibility or efficiency? Are we really sure the other two healers bring more, or just different? I've read almost every page of this thread, and even the crunchiest posts come back to 'I guess we will see'.

The point in this, as you put it, is that we can't analyze something correctly if we don't understand the problem they're trying to solve. I AM convinced that we have no idea of their performance metrics at the moment.

Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Well, AST was crummy to play on release in 3.0. And then look what happened to them. Just gotta wait a year to feel good again, by which point they'll have over-tuned us so we become the new Gods of Healing! Or we'll be like BRD and have to wait until 5.0 to get a kit change that better reflects what people like about the class.

We'll be waiting until 5.0. To address the largest concerns it's going to take more the number tweeks especially considering the only thing that was officially addressed is the concerns about raid ability (To which he suggests trying it out in raid before saying anything, so basically if we do get number adjustments, it'll be closer to savage).

I don't think I've seen Yoshi-P comment on the loss of skills compared to other healing classes or any comments on the new UI and skills bring lackluster.

They needed to make all healing skill grant Confession, Lillies to have PVP level of effect and make Benison have a Haste effect as extra if you use more Lillies. It seems so wasteful to use Benison at 3 Lillies and not get a different effect.