Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

so are someppl already playing stormblood?

i dont get why ppl are talking like its a serten thing 0-o

We give feedback based on the info we have. Taking a "wait and see" approach only leads to no feedback being given to the devs and lengthens the time it takes for the devs to fix problems. And not for nothing, if the devs thought WHM's initial SB design (up to the point we've seen so far) was the "right direction" in the first place, what sort of confidence should we have that waiting and seeing what goes live next week will fix everything that's wrong?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

so are someppl already playing stormblood?

i dont get why ppl are talking like its a serten thing 0-o

We've seen enough to know where this is going. Why wait to play stormblood when the information is right in our face? By then, the feedback will be too late, and something they could have been discussing and have fixed maybe even before the first raid tier, will have to wait till, at worst, the end of SB or the beginning of 5.0.

If SE knows we're extremely dissatisfied even before the expansion drops, they'll pay more attention to WHM numbers than usual, and I'm sure WHM is going to see a significant drop off in numbers in endgame content. And when they see that, they'll know exactly why, and not have to wonder how this could have possibly happened.

[HyperiusUltima]

From what I've read, there have been plenty of good arguments made over WHM's issues with Lillies. I myself played WHM in 2.x series and up to Nidhogg release before being forced to switch to BRD for my group. One of the things that I have to say about Lillies is that it doesn't synergize with how WHM is played. Sure, Cures(20%) and Cure IIs(Guaranteed) can give Lillies, but the problem lies in Mana Expenditure for efficiency in that mechanic, making it problematic when you're doing end-game raids for progression or farms. Mana Expenditure in HW has never been encouraged for WHM/SCH/AST mechanically as far as I know unless we're back in A4S awkward strats.

Divine Benison - 15% HP Shield for loss of all Lilies. Stoneskin was literally one of the best things we had until WHM lost their unique trait, then now it's gone for good. A major thing though is the fact that you lose all your Lilies.

Recommendation: Make it cost 2 Lilies, not 3. 15% HP Shield is nice and all, but it shouldn't cost the entire Lily Gauge since it only has a Recast of 60s(cut down by X% from Lily Buff).

Plenary Indulgence - Burst heal when you're already healing a target...makes it redundant. I'd honestly rather see Confession being used for Regen Ticks more than anything else since if you're already healing a target and they're full HP upon the time you have that Confession stack, you either A) Have to wait for a Tank Buster to burst it, or B) Burst it for quick oGCD Heals like Tetra. Plus, this change I'm suggesting also synergizes more with the WHM 'Pure Healer' Fantasy that SE is looking for.

Thin Air - 0 MP Cost Spells. WHM now has the best MP Management in the game on a 120s recast for 12s. This means WHM can deal A LOT of damage or even spam Medica without burning their MP! It's amazing and is actually a very good solution to all of WHM's MP Problems since AST can recover MP through Ewer and their own MP Refresh and SCH...Aetherflow. Expect LOTS of Holy Bombs.

As for accumulating Lilies for CDR(which honestly shouldn't be here for WHM, since having a Spear mechanic is...well, kinda ok and just a slap to the GD Face)...I don't know how one could change it. It's something entirely new, and what's more if you're burning Lilies every time you use an Ability, that literally SUCKS. It means you won't be able to get CDR on your abilities that you use to burst with(Asylum, mainly) or Burst Heal with(Tetra, Benediction) unless you cast a Cure II or get lucky on a Cure. It just needs to be revamped entirely if WHM is going to have a unique mechanic to it.

[Acidblood]

I've been thinking (dangerous, I know) about it for the last few days, and all numbers, RNG rates, and applicable abilities aside, I've finally realised what I dislike so much about the Lilies system*... it's only benefit is extra healing power

And why is this an issue? Because in FFXIV, where healing is both strictly required and strictly capped, mechanics that allow for extra healing can only lead to two possible outcomes...
1. That the extra healing is required; in which case WHM will arguably (depending on healing power balance) be the worst healer (due to having parts of their primary kit locked behind buildable stacks and / or RNG, i.e. gate mechanics, neither of which the other healers suffer from).
2. That the extra healing won't be required; in which case what is the point?

And it's likely that, due to the vast differences in difficulty between even ‘end-game’ content, both of these scenarios will exist in the game at various times, leaning heavily towards the latter as each gear cycle comes to a close. i.e. The extra healing may be required for day-1 savage (thus locking out the SCH / AST combo), but will be mostly, if not completely, useless in less challenging content (which is the majority of content).

Now granted, and depending on which abilities can be used to build stacks (being able to use Medica and / or Stone would help a lot), extra healing could buy a few extra GCDs for doing personal DPS, but is that really a satisfying reward for a healer (especially given Yoshi-P's comments that healers are still not expected to DPS in 4.0 (source: MrHappy interview), and the seeming number of healers that still take this to heart (source: forum arguments over healers not doing DPS))?

More philosophically speaking, I think it's also worth mentioning that outside of Holy spam, WHM has never felt all that satisfying to play... For example:

As a SCH it feels good to see one of your shields reduce an otherwise big hit to a whimper, and it feels good to spread your DoTs on a large group of enemies and watch them all burn down (which is one reason people are so concerned about the SCH DPS nerf).

As an AST, although RNG based, it feels good to play a card and know that you helped your party in more ways than just healing and a bit of personal DPS, and I also suspect that, come 4.0, it will feel quite good casting Gravity (since it’s ranged) between heals, and perfectly timing the fancy new galaxy bomb.

However, as a WHM, it actually feels kind of bad not being able to help your raid group outside of the requisite healing and throwing a few Stones, and personally I suspect that spamming a few Cure II’s for a cooldown reduction on Assize isn’t going to change that in any meaningful way, which for a job that already feels neglected and un-wanted is, to put it mildly, not a good thing.

*Edit: Oh by Lilies, I mean the whole Confession stack thing as well

[ColdKilla]

Lot of us that are new are using Cure 2 like crazy because we don't have the spell speed and it kills our mana hardcore.

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Seraphyna's Avatar
Quote Originally Posted by Seraphyna View Post
Am I supposed to be excited about the bolded?

I can't tell you how infrequently I cast Cure II. It's almost nil. Regen, Medica/II, Cure (when needed), all yes. Cure II, hardly.

You know who I see spamming Cure II? New Whm's and those whose panic. That's who.

[Adelaide3]

The thing that hurts Whm is their lack of a dps raid buff because the only thing raiders are going to see is that Ast and Sch have those dps raid buffs and Whm doesn't.

My fix: Add an additional effect to the lily mechanic so that it enables the use of a dps raid buff that changes in some way depending on how many lillies are up. Give said raid buff a cooldown and make it so that it won't consume your lillies. The rest of the lily mechanic should remain the same and everyone will be happy.

I would be shocked if this exact change isn't already in effect for the launch build because it makes perfect sense.

[Cynfael]

Lot of us that are new are using Cure 2 like crazy because we don't have the spell speed....

Spell speed is a non-issue. Cure II spam without cause is generally due to a lack of familiarity with the Job and/or the content.

That's not intended to be a criticism, by the way. Everyone starts out new.

[Gemina]

If SE knows we're extremely dissatisfied even before the expansion drops, they'll pay more attention to WHM numbers than usual, and I'm sure WHM is going to see a significant drop off in numbers in endgame content. And when they see that, they'll know exactly why, and not have to wonder how this could have possibly happened.

Didn't the community already experience this? I was under the impression that everyone is upset because SE presumably did nothing to make WHM meta relevant again, and is forcing their pure healer down our throats?

I just wonder who's extensive job it is to wade through all the "You killed WHM!" and "I won't be resubbing for 4.0" comments to find the ones that are actually constructive. I also wonder if they listen to us at all during this stage, and instead listen to a select set of individuals who represent the voices of the community. What I do know is that players who stick things through into 4.0 before tossing their mains in a coffin and nailing it shut will speak louder to the devs than those who don't.

[Fyce]

Divine Benison - 15% HP Shield for loss of all Lilies. Stoneskin was literally one of the best things we had until WHM lost their unique trait, then now it's gone for good. A major thing though is the fact that you lose all your Lilies.

Recommendation: Make it cost 2 Lilies, not 3. 15% HP Shield is nice and all, but it shouldn't cost the entire Lily Gauge since it only has a Recast of 60s(cut down by X% from Lily Buff).

It actually cost 1 Lily minimum. So as long as you have 1, you can use it.
So, the change about Cure II being able to generate 1 Lily 100% of the time (if the target has lost some HP), means that you should reliably be able to Cure II your tank and then use Divine Benison on him for a tank buster. Or another party member for whatever mechanic.

So, Divine Benison is "saved" by Cure II, in a way. It's still not ideal, but it's way better than it was with the build that got tested.

[Mahkii]

If Divine Benison has the same effect at 1 lily as it does at 3 lilies, it should just always cost 1 lily.