Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by Ryahask

Maybe because SCH lost their crazy aoe damage which was a luxury, not an essential component of their kit

They lost 2 DoTs; one from their main kit and one from cross-role while also losing a ton of AoE damage

SCH gets better single target healing which has always been a weakness of theirs

Since when? They've always lacked in AoE healing and been the best single target healer due to stacking Physick and Fairy heals with Lustrate and Fey Illumination lol. Embrace lost 50 potency btw.

Their only new ability which isn't simply more overhealing is a shield, for which they lost a shield (Stoneskin)

10% MP 3 Second Cast vs. 15% No Cost Instant Cast? Sounds good.

none of their previous weaknesses covered.

MP Management?

The closest thing to a meaningful NEW ability WHM is getting is in Thin Air, which, realistically, does nothing in difficult content unless MP values have been inflated to make it valuable.

Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?

Originally Posted by Niroken

I think you missed the fact that it now has a half minute cooldown and requires at least a cast of Cure II to use with the added bonus of being restricted in use if you want to use Lilies for something else.

Cure I is 50% chance of getting a Lily and Cure II is 100% so it's unlikely you won't have a Lily when you need to use the shield, and why would you ever need a shield more than once every 30 seconds? Tank Busters don't happen that often. Did you really waste your MP using Stoneskin that often?

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Cure I is 50% chance of getting a Lily and Cure II is 100% so it's unlikely you won't have a Lily when you need to use the shield, and why would you ever need a shield more than once every 30 seconds? Tank Busters don't happen that often. Did you really waste your MP using Stoneskin that often?

The bottom line is that in terms of practicality where you the new shield will be useful, Stoneskin already was. Did it have a higher cost? Yeah, but it wasn't too significant. To be clear, I do think Benison will be better. There's no doubt there, but a massive improvement? Eh, not really.

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

They lost 2 DoTs; one from their main kit and one from cross-role while also losing a ton of AoE damage

DoTs are being consolidated across the board, this isn't a SCH specific issue. So, they've lost AoE damage.

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Since when? They've always lacked in AoE healing and been the best single target healer due to stacking Physick and Fairy heals with Lustrate and Fey Illumination lol. Embrace lost 50 potency btw.

They still retain Fey Illumination, it's now a cross class skill. I should have specified; outside of Aetherflow SCH has always lacked considerable single target heals, now they have yet another avenue.

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

MP Management?
Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?

I think you misunderstand being the only Job that actually has MP management (Discounting DRK) with difficulty. Apart from needing to excessively resurrect WHM is fine with the current MP tools it has. Sure, Thin Air will be hilarious for Holy Spam or for firing off 4 Resurrects, but most often you'll use it for 5 free Stone IV's - it's a gimmick. A nice gimmick, but it's minor and it won't impact the weaker aspects of WHM. WHM could already go net neutral in MP without outside influence unless constantly needing to ress.

Overall WHM is getting some new tools which will useful, but not nearly so many as others and they're losing far more than most in the exchange. That's why people are emphasizing it. I don't understand how you could suggest SCH is in a worse position given all they're receiving in exchange for, mostly, aoe damage.

Originally Posted by Kabzy

If the MP costs are reflective of what we've been used to in HW, SCH will easily have the hardest time in that department too. WHM may not have received much, but it didn't get nerfed anywhere near as hard as SCH. And with N.AST retaining a 15% heal increase, it's more than valid for SCHs to be feeling a little shafted from what we're seeing. I'm still reserving judgement for now, but now that we have numbers it's looking a little bleak for for both except AST who continues to get buffed even now. :'D

I'd love you to explain this because I must be missing something. Aetherflow return is being lowered, but they have the potential for higher use of Aetherflow and they're receiving a new MP management tool. I do agree though, it's odd that out of the 3 the only Healer getting clearly bumped up is AST.

Originally Posted by Ryahask

The bottom line is that in terms of practicality where you the new shield will be useful, Stoneskin already was. Did it have a higher cost? Yeah, but it wasn't too significant.\

Except it was because it had a cast time and a huge MP cost. 2.5 Second Cast Time and 884 Mana (that's the same as a Cure II, are you saying you can afford to use Cure II willy-nilly cuz the cost isn't significant?) is significant.

DoTs are being consolidated across the board, this isn't a SCH specific issue. So, they've lost AoE damage.

It is when SCH was specifically the DoT king and also received nerfs to Bane.....unlike AST who got Earthly Star and WHM who has an AoE DoT that doesn't decrease with # of targets and two other AoE damage abilities in the game. SCH's AoE sucks compared to the other two healers. Fact.

outside of Aetherflow SCH has always lacked considerable single target heals, now they have yet another avenue.

They have always had the strongest single target heals because they stacked Fairy Embrace on top of Physick to pump out more baseline healing than other classes. Now, the other two classes had their base heal potencies increased (450 for WHM and 430? for AST) while fairy Embrace has been nerfed. SCH lacked AoE healing prior to HW because Succor could not compete with Medica/Cure III. In HW they got Indominability but could not keep up with sustained AoE damage so still needed to rely on the co-healer and that has not changed. Now they lack AoE Damage AND AoE healing.

I think you misunderstand being the only Job that actually has MP management (Discounting DRK) with difficulty. Apart from needing to excessively resurrect WHM is fine with the current MP tools it has

No, it's not. It has the least MP management out of the 3 classes (speaking of HW not SB) because it only has Shroud of Saints and Assize. Aetherflow is ridiculously good for Scholar because they get so many free heals from fairy and lustrate that the 20% MP regain is enough to give them infinite MP. Meanwhile WHM has to spam Cure II and Medica and Cure III to heal everyone up. AST gets Luminiferous Aether and Lightspeed and can also give itself an Ewer if it needs to while being able to extend LA/LS on itself with Celestial Opposition. Bottomline: WHM has the worst MP Management and highest MP Usage of the three healers and has always been weak in MP Management.

Your post shows a lack of understanding of the healers. Are you sure you've even played them?

Regardless this isn't about which class is worse off. It's about "If the king of healers SCH is nerfed then isn't WHM comparatively better off even if they lost skills to cross-role actions"

Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

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There's no reason to become antagonistic. Yes, losing AoE on SCH sucks and hopefully it won't hit them too hard, but AoE isn't essential. It does suck for playability though, as a large part of the fun with SCH was seeing what kinds of crazy numbers you could do in casual content, which - let's be realistic, is about 90% of the game sadly.

SCH actually doesn't have the best single target healing output, AST does. Lack of oGCDs hurts, which they're getting.

Lastly, WHM doesn't need more MP management. I won't turn my nose up at, it's something extra to use, but a WHM properly managing their current tools can stay net neutral in MP. I would suggest that the new damage utility SCH is receiving ensures they remain in the spotlight. As it stands now data mining is suggesting 15% crit for 15s, which is quite considerable if accurate. We'll need to wait and see, but I wouldn't debate the balance of anything currently because we won't know until we have final numbers.

It seems we're debating two different issues, I can understand SCH being peeved about what they're losing - hell, I can understand every Job being upset about certain losses. What's got me upset with WHM is just that I don't feel anything new or exciting is being brought to the table. I really like the new SCH abilities that have been announced, but I don't main it so maybe it just seems better from the outside looking in. I'll argue about balance until I'm blue in the face once I can do so with accurate information.

Originally Posted by Kabzy

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I can see where you're coming from with that. It's hard to say as it stands because Aetherflow is getting a passive which has the potential to lower the cooldown I believe (Unless I misunderstood that ability and it gives extra stacks, not sure) and it would certainly be a weird turn around if SCH was suddenly plagued by MP management.