Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[AlphaSonic]

Technically, YES, Whm has lost abilities being UNIQUE to their role; but so has so many other jobs. Also Technically you can reach into the cross-class system and retain all the CDs you have here in Heavenward (with the exception of Stoneskin). So again being technical!! WHM has actually got 1 of its cd's nerfed "divine veil", has loss Stoneskin being 100% accessible (which wasn't ever necessary....bad healing if u spamming Stoneskin) and has lost between 2-5 cross-class role slots (if you INSIST on having alllllll your original skills from Heavenward be available in SB)

We are talking about the fact that we have 3 less abilities than SCH and AST. Where are them? We want something to replace the lost ones.

[Entilper]

I want to point something out about WHM Confession mechanic.

According to this, Yoshida wanted to reduce the emphasis on managing buff icons with the new UI elements. Yet, they implemented the confession stacks, a buff icon that you need to manage on the whole party for WHM. Not only it's un-fun, but it also goes against their own vision of what's optimal for the battle system, moving forward.

Personally, I think confessions should be totally scraped and Plenary Indulgence reworked into something else.

[KingFrost]

It's weird that the proposed identity of WHM is "pure healer" when it was hardly ever that in the series. "Pure support" perhaps. Seeing all these buff suggestions for additional skills lifted straight from white magic of past games kinda goes to show SE never had a good vision for the Job. It's not like Reflect, Dispel and Bravery poofed into existence in the franchise recently.

On the plus side, WHM will likely at some point see good change. Then only Monk will be the lackluster mess!!

[javid]

We are talking about the fact that we have 3 less abilities than SCH and AST. Where are them? We want something to replace the lost ones.

To be fair the guy I quoted wasn't comparing WHM's loss to SCH/AST, he was speaking generally about WHM's loss. I do agree with you in part that AST made out like a bandit in the new cross-role system!! (if I ever run with a AST co-healer and he/she doesn't have protect and maybe esuna that's an auto dismiss :P )




Side note

Pre Heavenward content made much use of CCs (stuns, silence, heavy, slow, pacification, blind, etc). With SE now having a dedicated icon to signify when a debuff can be removed, gives me hope that we'll be incorporating CC back into the raiding experience!! Second binding coil turn 2 (T7*) was one of my favorite favorite fights b/c of the use of CCs!! T9 was fun to push those golem around with fluid aura, and silence and heavy were cute too. Only fight in heaven's raid I can remember used CCs is A6? Someone remind me what else in raid used CCs??


Side note # 2

YOu know what!? if they implemented that PvP version of Protect into PvE that would be very interesting!! Right now Protect is extremely dull pre-requisite that you cast once pre pull and never worry about it again, less someone died mid fight-YAWN..... BUTT?! if they made it a CD like the PvP version, that would be a direct dmg utility all the healers would be able to add to their cross-role and make things a bit more interesting and dynamic (this however would hurt WHM's cross role even more...since this would be yet another skill we'd HAVE to slot LOL.). I would reallly like this change to Protect in PvE (spice up the game!)

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blo...453.1492985788

[Kacho_Nacho]

Oh you mean what SE is requesting we do to generate lillies? Cast Cure for a 20% proc or Cure II for 100%. Since as of right now these are the ONLY ways to generate lillies, you better bet your ass there will be tons of overhealing and hate pulling. Oh look, someone died. No more Stoneskin so you better get those lillies fast. Cure 2 x 3. Major incoming damage one the tank. Cure 2 x 3 again.

I'm not going to pull the "you're not even 60 Whm" but if you don't think this system is severely flawed, you're a fool.

Thanks for not pulling the "you're not even a 60 WHM." Appreciate that.


The system was flawed as presented. Certainly, things need to be tweaked. People have repeated stated White Mages feel weak. There's nothing that grabs the players. Meanwhile, others have pointed out all issues with the Lilies, as presented.

But, Yoshi-san and his team have assured us that they are listening to our feedback. They certainly don't want to push all the players of White Mages away from healing, and possibly, the game. So, I'm not so pessimistic about what the future state White Mages will be.

All the jobs are being overhauled to fit this new vision of FFXIV. We should not be so afraid of change that we naysay everything that is presented to us.

[Adventica6]

They have 2 weeks to make whm not suck, hope they are tweaking the numbers, like really fast.

[Chiami]

How does level 50 content have anything to do with 3.0 or 4.0 WHM? They're the same as far as any of the 52-60 skills are concerned. WHM isn't losing any tool in 4.0 that makes it any less than it already is, and gets access to so much more, no matter what it ends up being. 4.0 wins by default in that vein.

There's also one other thing I want to reiterate to this thread which has been lost on many people here falsely claiming that Yoshi wants healers to DPS or something. From a media tour interview:


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...NwqZTwPUw/edit

And you know what? This tells us that the devs have absolutely no clue about this game and healing. Would it be nice (for some of us) if healers would be "pure healers", with "no dps needed"? Sure.

But the reality of how this game is designed, at its very core, does not lend itself to it. The majority of the player base wants to clear content fast, no matter if people wanting to get out of roulette (which becomes a boring grind after a while) as fast as possible or raiders who hope to skip mechanics, beat their own time records, you name it.

And the only way to do that is... D.P.S. Dead People Speedily. The more dps the faster mobs die the faster you clear content. Healing does NOTHING for that except making sure no one who can contribute to dps is out of the picture. So once you can make sure of that (and all healers can)... any more healing power is a waste of coding.

So if Yoshi-p says that healers should not have to dps then he proves that he is clueless about the function of healers in this game, and that is VERY concerning if coming from the head honcho. Because as a healer who does not contribute to dps when having the time for that you are standing around poking your nose and being dead weight to the party, making everything take longer.

If the devs want to change that it is pointless to say "but we don't want this to be so". They would have to do a complete relaunch like from 1.0 to 2.0, and rework the game, the content, EVERYTHING from the ground up for this to become remotely viable.

Honestly, this statement from Yoshi-p was the thing that sounded the alarm bells in me more than anything. Seeing the complete, epic fail of the lily system, the gutting of WHM in terms of skills etc. just proved the point to me -- the devs have no clue about healing and most of all about WHM.

I say this not because I am not willing to adapt to a new style (heck, I would LOVE if this game would be designed toward "healers almost only heal"!), but if you wanna play that play something else but FFXIV.

Given AST and SCH got tools to *gasp* increase DPS it is probably safe to say that the rule "you better contribute to dps" is not going to change. WHM simply became the class Yoshi-p's dream of a "pure" (less contributing to dps) healer was projected onto and now the backlash is felt.

I think the devs need to either rethink this entire game from the ground up like they did with ARR or their vision of healing in this game, if that statement is any indicator.

[Reiryuu]

They have 2 weeks to make whm not suck, hope they are tweaking the numbers, like really fast.

I hope they're doing more than just tweaking some numbers...

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Honestly, I still believe WHM DPS and healing is fine the way it is. Their new mechanic needs some tweaking, sure, and I wholeheartedly believe it'll be functional at some point, but they'll need utility going forward, and I still stand behind my suggestions:

Dispel - Remove all basic debuffs from 1 ally or buffs from 1 enemy. ! lily - Removes all but mechanic buffs/debuffs from an enemy/ally. 2 lillies - remove all buffs/debuffs from all enemies/party. 3 lillies - remove all buffs/debuffs from EVERYTHING.
Astra - 1 ally debuff prevention for a fixed duration. Will not work on mechanic debuffs.
Shellskin - Similar in cast and cost to SCHs Succor, instead of healing it provides increased magical defense as long as it holds and mitigates a fixed percentage of magical damage for its duration.
Reflect - 1 ally buff that reflects 5% of all damage for 10s. 1 lily - enhance to add 5% reduced damage taken. 2 lillies - double both percentages. 3 lillies - double duration of effect.

[Ayesafaile]

The best change that can possibly be made to White Mage is the nerf, removal, or redesign of the Balance card from Astrologian.

The Lily system is terrible at a fundamental level, but tweaking it still does not address the elephant in the room. A healer that can boost the damage of an entire raid by 10% for 30-40 seconds at a time is a toxic entity to balance other jobs around, particularly given that the design philosophy for WHM seems to be against having any utility whatsoever.