Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Laladyn]

My Oppinion may differ But i see WHM in Stormblood as a very strong healer as it looks now. But the Lilie Mechanic is definitly lacking.

You should Consider adding differnet bonuses from lilies to different Spells.

i.e.
Regen with Lilie = Regen + Tenacity up/direct Hit up
Cure with lilie = Cure + short regen Effect
Cure2 with Lielei = Cure2 + Shield
Medica with Lilie = Medica +regen effect
Medica2 + Lilie = Medica2 + Confession stacks
Raise +Lilie = Raise + arrise(aute Raise on next death)
Assize + Lilie = Assize + Assize Cooldown reduced
Tertagramaton +lillie = Tetragramaton +Tetragramaton Cooldown reduces
Asylum + Lilie = Asylum + damagereduction (like Astros)

And so on you get the idea.


And also how you generate Lilies, you should generate them throu more spells not only Cure and Cure 2.

Also WHM got stripped of essential Skills and has to get them back thour Class actions. wich leaves no room fo new Class action. Please consider leaving some skills native to WHM like Shrouds of saints and Divine Seal and esuna, so we can use the new Class skills as well.

Next
Confession stacks. Having them only build up throu Cure and Cure 2 is bad. They need to build also throu the other heals like assize medica and the other healing skills.

[giedonas]

In order to provide some raid utility, why not give WHMs classic FF spells like Brave and Faith?

[Duelle]

This is a great idea honestly. To add to this, make confessions be gatherable through AOE healing and have an effect. Something like increases healing on the target based the amount of them.One of WHMs mechanics then becomes keeping these stack up on all players. Plenary now becomes something to upkeep on all targets as well as a huge AOE burst heal that you can dish out constantly.
It would be very strong and really push home the healer specialist idea IMO.

Wouldn't that requiring weakening the heal so that it remains balanced? Making it not consume Confession would mean that you'd have a free technically AoE heal active whenever the cooldown expires, and it we're going that route you should probably make is supplemental to other heals.

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Since people are throwing in suggestions, I'll do so as well:

Traits

52 Secret of the Lily - Grants a 30% chance that a Lily is added to your healing gauge upon the execution of Cure, Cure II, Cure III or Medica. Lilies will increase your spell speed by 5% per lilies stacked. Lilies also empower certain abilities upon execution, at which time the lilies are removed.

---Stoneskin (see below)
---Asylum - Extends the duration of Asylum by 3s per lily upon execution.
---Assize - Increases MP restored by 3.33% per lily upon execution (10% at 3 lilies).
---Tetragrammaton - Cooldown reduced by 6/12/25% per lily upon execution.
---Divine Benison (see below)

68 Secret of the Lily II - Using Cure, Cure II, Cure III, or Medica now reduce the remaining cooldown on Asylum, Assize, and Divine Benison by 3s per use.

Abilities

34 Stoneskin - Creates a barrier around target that absorbs damage totaling to 12% of target's maximum HP. Gains an additional 2% per lily active upon execution. All lilies in your Healing Gauge are lost upon execution. Cooldown: 45s.

62 Thin Air - stays as is

64 Stone IV - stays as is

66 Divine Benison - Places a barrier around target that restores HP from the next direct attack. Cure Potency: 500. Can absorb one additional attack per lily active upon execution. All lilies in your Healing Gauge are lost upon execution. Duration: 10s. Cooldown: 60s.

68 Solace - Restores target's HP. Cure potency: 150. Cooldown: 1.5s. Additional effect: Grants target a Confession, increasing healing received by 2% for 30s. Caps at 3 stacks.

70 Plenary Indulgence - Restores HP of all nearby party members. Potency varies with current Confession stack. Upon execution, all Confession stacks are lost. Cooldown: 30s.

Notes

- Stoneskin comes back as a cooldown that becomes very powerful once the lily system is introduced.
- Divine Benison would change to be basically Earth Shield from WoW, but scaling with lilies.
- Solace has the same GCD as Mudras, so a WHM could quickly spam it to get Confession stacks on a party member. The quick cooldown should also allow its use between other heals, and the extra +healing received would be a bonus.
- Removing the RNG would probably call for nerfing some of the healing potencies, but I'm just spitballing here.

[razzgrizz3]

The lilies mechanic makes no sense since some skills are directly GATED behind the need to have them while also you have skills that are not gated (like assize tetra asylum and so on that you would want to use pretty much as soon as they come of cooldown) that will use up lilies anyway.
So essentialy you are locking us out of using the non gated skills in order to use the gated ones. Cherry on top being that in order to remove said gates you have to play even more suboptimal by spamming cures for a 20% chance procc (LOL) + not using non gated skills in fear of losing lilies...

I know we joke a lot about content being locked out in this game and its various systems but this is quite extreme design imho and seems like our class designer hates whm with a passion.

[Entilper]

I'm gonna make another suggestion, maybe something good can come out of this thread if the devs take some ideas.

Some other simple changes that I think could be done:

LV.46 Aero II and LV.58 Aero III
Change potency of both to 40 and make it a 30 seconds duration to accomodate changes to Stone III and Quake (see below).

LV.52 Secret of the Lilies
Grants a 50% chance that a Lily is added to your healing gauge upon the execution of Cure, Cure II, Cure III. Each lily increases spell-based HP restoration by 5%, totalling 15% at 3 stacks.

Why it's not overpowered:
In adition to Largesse being added to the role-actions (a direct nerf to WHM Divine Seal), AST has an innate healing bonus on their Sects (making their heals on par if not better than the new potency WHM spells) and SCH has acess to both Dissipation and Fey Illumination, that when paired together with Largesse grants a 60% increase to spell-based HP restoration.

LV.54 Stone III
Change potency to 225 to accomodate the loss of Stone IV and addition of Quake (see below).

LV.62 Thin Air
Good addition that fixes the mana management problem.

LV.64 Quake (instead of Stone IV)
150 potency AoE OGCD. 60 seconds cooldown. Applies "Earth Vulnerability Up" to targets, making them take 20% more damage from Earth-based spells. Duration: 30 seconds.

Why it's not overpowered:
With the removal of the damage on Fluid Aura, WHM lost a free 150 potency OGCD every 30 seconds. The addition of Quake would not only make the DPS rotation better but also help solidify WHM as a AoE powerhouse. The 'Earth Vulnerability Up' would make up for the lack of a fourth tier spell, maintaining Stone III as our main DPS skill.

LV.66 Divine Benison
OGCD. Consumes one lily stack to create a barrier around target that absorbs damage totaling 10% of target's maximum HP. Duration: 15 seconds. Cooldown: 5 seconds.

Why it's not overpowered:
WHMs lost Stoneskin, a spammable 10% shield, a valuable tool for some encounters even with the high MP required. By consuming only one lily and having the barrier % reduced to affect that, a WHM could easily choose between maintaining his bonus to healing from the lilies or spending them to shield party members in circustances where mitigation is better than active healing. By only consuming one stack, the WHM could shield multiple party members, but still not as proficiently as Nocturnal AST or SCH.

LV.68 Secret of the Lilies II
Reduces Assize, Tetragrammaton and Plenary Indulgence cooldown by 5 seconds everytime a lily is consumed to use Divine Benison.

Why it's not overpowered:
This would help incentivate the use of lilies for Divine Benison in exchange for cooldown reductions, preventing that players sit at 3 stacks at all times.

LV.70 Plenary Indulgence
Restores HP to all nearby party members. Potency depends on how many lilies are stacked.

No lilies: 200 potency.
One lily: 300 potency.
Two lilies: 400 potency.
Three lilies: 500 potency.

Lilies are not consumed when this ability is used.
Cooldown: 90 seconds.

Why it's not overpowered:
This is supposed to be WHM's version of Indomitability. By tying the potency to lily stacks, the players could plan their healing by consuming the lilies when this skill is on cooldown to quicken the recast timer, or keep the lilies for maximum potency.

Conclusion:
While very tentative, I think that these changes would make WHM a lot more fun and especially more engaged with the new job gauge.

By having lilies affect healing potency, WHM would have a very powerful but fluctuating toolkit at it's disposal. These changes would also make the DPS rotation more interesting, all while keeping the job as a PURE HEALER, something that SE wants them to be.

[Okashii]

Honestly, I think that the Lilly system is ok -- it's essentially an mp management tool. I do wish stone iv would give some chance to proc lillies as well but I can be ok without that. It's not flashy or overpowered like ast; I'm ok with that. I'm ok with confessions -- it's not going to really ever be useful as an aoe heal, but as a tank healing move, it's good for mp management and for movement. And in times where there's something a little healing intensive followed by time to dps, the instant cast is nice. That's the extent of the changes. It's underwhelming but I can be ok with it. Ast is becoming very OP, so in relation, it's upsetting. I wish that whm would get some raid utility but obviously se doesn't like that idea. I hate that whm started with an 18% stoneskin, then 10% (and be honest the cast time reduction didn't matter much at all since it was always a move you used very preemptively, and now we get 15% instant cast shield but on a tetra-sized cooldown. That feels like a bit of a slap in the face. The cool down needs reduced or take it off the Lilly system.

There are three scenarios in which I feel like it could be possible to favor taking a whm just as much or more than another healer in progression raiding just considering the trade offs for taking one healer or another: 1. Whm dps for skilled players in a raid setting matches the other healers dps plus the added dps from their raid utilities, or at least pretty close, with a sub scenario that this could easily be possible if there's more aoe dps to be done 2. Whm healing particularly do to the extra ability to heal the tank with confessions ends up making a solo healer comp during progression on the hardest fights more viable for skilled players (not great for the game). Or 3. Nocturnal ast becomes the class to play because it looks pretty overpowered, and sch shields don't stack, and therefore perhaps whm becomes the better partner (and this last possible scenario is just sad).

The first scenario would be better than the other two, so if nothing changes mechanic-wise for whm, please at least ensure that. Tweak some dps potencies if necessary, or add more aoe opportunities if there aren't enough.

Now what I mean by taking one over another based on trade offs is this: if skilled whm dps is significantly less than skilled ast dps + dps from raid utility or sch dps + their utility and all healer combinations are viable enough for the damage output in progression raiding, then I would help my team more by learning a new healing job and swapping it. Right now at the end of heavensward, with the difficulty level of creator savage, I felt ok staying as a white mage because my group progressed at a rate we were mostly all proud of. But it looks to me like the disparity between whm and the other healers in terms of progression rate is only rising (barring the possible scenarios I mentioned before). If that is the case, I will swap to ast to pair with my favorite sch.

That should mean something. I AM a white mage. I buy little trinkets like my car decal to proudly show that off. But if I feel like I should swap because there is too great a disparity, I will feel pretty awful, but I will do it because I don't want -not- swapping to be a significant contributor to a lower progression rate for my team. And since I'm not even 50% convinced that any of the scenarios I mentioned -will- be the case, I've already started leveling and learning ast.

[EZ5902]

Not happy about this either. Regens/Medica 2 keeps hp topped up in most cases, coupled with Divine Seal even better which i thought this was an ability unique to whm to help boost the burst heals.... not anymore....

Hate how clerics has been done too, from that healer damage is based on mind now? if that's the case, there's no excuse for any healer NOT to dps, which i thought that they didn't want to force healers to dps.

There's just too many skill stripped from whm and put on other healers tbh.

Give whm frikkin Graniteskin back already.

[Sieben79]

I would like it if the lilies regenerate over time. Each 10s one lily so that we have after 30 seconds three lilies. This would be disable the RNG and wouldn't affect the players playstyle.

Give us a buff (for the whm only) if we have have a certain amount of lilies for a dam% and heal% buff (1=5%, 2=10%, 3=15%) and add something special to the skills if it use up the lilies and not something cheap like CD reduce.

As for the Confession stacks: Every Spell at usage should grant a rng stack. I don't like to track down the stacks on partymembers, the stacks should be shown at the players bar. So if we have gathered a certain amount of stacks, make Plenary Indulgence availbe to use. And for the damagedealer among us add a second lvl 70 skill: Mega Holy! (use also Confession stacks)

[SooperSte]

I'd love to see the Lillies scrapped entirely, they don't seem to have anything to do with WHM thematically whatsoever. Yes the Padjal are somewhat about nature but I don't feel any job connection to flowers as a WHM at all. Get rid and give us a Bravery/Faith (WHM abilities based in actual FF lore definitely part of our identity) system that can buff physical/magic damage for the party whilst increasing our healing or something.

[BroodingFicus]

Ok, I'll put in my 2 cents as well even if I'm sure most of it has been said.

A. The new role system means nothing to a WHM. We gain nothing from it. In fact they more or less stripped us for parts and now we'll be forced to buy back our own toys while the other healers get new shiny ones of their own on top of access to ours. The biggest hit to me is Divine Seal. That's a Job specific, quest locked ability that they have taken away without giving us anything in its place.

B. The lily system is bogus. You can't/shouldn't base a major mechanic on a low percentage (20%), tacked onto an RNG proc (crit), on a few moves that it isn't logical to spam (cure/cure II). Not only that but the reward isn't worth diddly squat. Honestly I can see myself ignoring the lily system completely as it stands now because it isn't worth playing inefficiently and holding cool downs for the sake of a chance to get lower cool downs. Either the reward needs a serious rework or the effort to get it needs to come way down and that's the bare minimum. Personally, I'd say its both.

C. Confession is...a semi neat concept that, again, is executed poorly due to the fact that it procs only off of our Cure/Cure II. Why are they trying to excommunicate our AoE/Hot skills? I've read some people supposing this is because square wants WHM to do more cure spamming but if that is the case, we have even more problems than I thought.

D. Is any other WHM kinda tired of being the most visually dull healer? Its like the Charlie Brown Halloween special. Everyone else: I GOT CANDY. I GOT A QUARTER. I GOT A CHOCOLATE BAR. White mages:...I got a rock. With all the focus on spending time with our current tank and healing classes by not adding new ones, I expected more than a few vague lights and slightly redesigned rocks. Especially when AST can open up a galaxy. WHM's are harnessing the freakin' power of the elementals and flinging it at their enemies but Square seems to shy away from doing anything to express that other than dull rocks. Why don't our big heals explode in leaves or flower petals? Why isn't ensuna a rush of cleansing water? Something on par with the AST in terms of design . Instead I'm left feeling like our moves are the stock photo's the came with the frame rather than anything original.

If I sound bitter, I probably am honestly. I'll admit that I wasn't impressed with how WHM was treated coming into HW and nothing was really ever addressed. Still, I stuck with it and had hope that SB would finally set things right. Only it seems we got shafted and so my patience is rather thin with the whole situation at this point. I'm hoping since they have half acknowledged how many complaints there are and that our concerns seem to be echoed outside the forums, things will be adjusted pre launch. I know a rework is unlikely, but hopefully something to make it feel worth while and exciting to experience the content as a WHM rather than being envious of everyone else or abandoning the class in favor of one Square doesn't seem to hate. I almost fall into the camp of 'scrap it and start over'. That's how far off base the changes feel.