Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

**Kamui_Argent** · 06-03-2017 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Hikuras

Are we sure KisaiTenshi isn't an alt and she actually does have a 60 whm somewhere and is only posting on an alt account due to a ban or something? Cause it could be that?

Just stop feeding the troll and it'll go away eventually. Everything it says is designed to infuriate the already agitated whm mains voicing their (very valid) concerns here.

**zeopower6** · 06-03-2017 07:17 PM

I'm a little surprised that the 'new' stuff that WHM got was so badly implemented. What's with all the randomness and forced use of Cure I and Cure II? Also with the way cross role has been adjusted, I think most jobs need more slots to accommodate for what they lost but ESPECIALLY for WHM since they lost more than they can get back with the cross role actions being limited to 5.

**javid** · 06-03-2017 07:34 PM

SE CANNOT place the lily procs, nor confession procs on Regens and Medica II EVER...

Lets be reasonable. The main concerns with everything being based on Cures is the worry that EITHER:

A: enough situation will not nominally & efficiently occur that will demand sufficient number of cure spamming sequences for the lily/confession system to be noticeably useful.

or
B: inefficient/abuse players will sit there and spam cures over and over and over and over trying to force procs, meanwhile a set of regens and ogcd and spending that remaining time dpsing would have been a MUUUCH better use of their gcds!!

Both A and B are legitimate concerns.... However what most of ya'll are not considering is how changing the system to regens would make it even worst and I'll show u how.

Scenario 1: they place procs on regens and medic II at a nominal rate. What's to keep inefficient/abusive players from spamming excessive medica II on raid that's not dealing with dmg every 30 sec; and playing multiple regens among several raid members? You'd get lilies and confession and free raid PI's coming out your asshole!!
Scenario 2: B/C SE DOESN'T WANT SCENARIO 1 TO HAPPEN.... they significantly reduce the proc rate off of regens/medica II.....now you have the opposite issue. EFFICIENT PLAYERS that would never think to spam unecessary medica II and place 8 regens when only 1 tank is taking dmg will NEVER SEE A PROC...making the system completely useless for their efficient play...

There is no way to create a regen base proc system that both rewards efficient players and AT THE SAME TIME address inefficient/abuse players....IT JUST WONT WORK....the amount of work around you'd need to reward one and punish the other is way too much....just no....let the regen concept go.

And compare the two: Which is more inefficient/abusive? Spaming single target cure1/2 ?? or spamming medica II every 30 sec and casting regen on the whole party in the meantime? (And don't say, "nobody will do that!!" .....are you serious, right now???

)

IF SE is Dead-set on wanting the lily/confession procs to be RNG it has to stay on cure1/2 and CANNOT have anything to do with any HoTs.

Next let's talk about proc rates...

**Reiryuu** · 06-03-2017 07:38 PM

What about an idea like this again... we have lilies as our mechanic now... so does that mean we should have a sort of plant theme too?

Vitality of the Oak
Effect: Stoneskin-esque.
Reduces all damage taken by the target by 10% until it has absorbed an amount of damage equal to 20% of the target's max health.
Reduced the resource cost of skills (TP/MP) by 10% while active.

This skill can consume 3 lilies to make it party-wide.

-- it's not a barrier, but a limited mitigation buff. Not as strong as a tank's, and it wouldn't last for very long on a tank, but it might last enough on say a DRK or PLD who's thirsting for resources and needs a bit more time to get a combo off to restore mp/etc. Most effective on DPS, but they can't get hit much before it falls off. I pulled the numbers out of my ass, so they can be tweaked for the sake of balance, naturally. But it's something a bit different.

**YakushiHinata** · 06-03-2017 08:41 PM

Of every rework and added skills to current and new jobs, WHM is the only job right now that does not bring any raid utility, looking away from the 15% shield that stacks with SCH shield, in any form that either boosts someone damage, give them attack speed etc.

Yes I understand that WHM always have been that pure healer, but some classic spells that WHM sometimes had in other games were Haste for faster attacks on party members, Faith for magical damage or Bravery for physical.
You could even make the effect of those 3 spells gets enhanced further depending on many lilies was spent on the cast. +5% Haste, up to +15%, magic/physical +5% - 15%, but then perhaps limit one spell to one party member and or make them only use lilies to be able to cast, and generating lilies takes time, to help balance it out to not make it too overpowered of course.

They say every job is viable in any scenario standard comp. Yes its true and I agree, but if you look at it from the view of a group that might want to delve deeper into optimizing themselves then an AST / SCH build is kinda "forced" on them again because WHM does not bring any enhancements to player damage stats in some form.

**javid** · 06-03-2017 08:42 PM

Many ppl are looking at 20% and thinking...

"That's too low, we're never gonna noticeably rely on it! It just will be a miracle if we get one at all!!"

But is that really the case? Let me list you our odds of getting 1,2, & 3 lilies and/or confessions

(WARNING: these probabilities assume the proc rates are independent of each other. If however they are mutually exclusive, for example like parry/dodge/block, these numbers will not predict the likelihood of lilies and confessions.)

Scenario 1 Chances of getting at LEAST 1 proc out of X attempts

For X=3; Chances of getting at least 1 proc:48.8%
For X=4; Chances of getting at least 1 proc:59.0%
For X=5; Chances of getting at least 1 proc: 67.2%
For X=6; Chances of getting at least 1 proc:73.8%
For X=7; Chances of getting at least 1 proc:79.0%
For X=10; Chances of getting at least 1 proc:89.3%
For X=15; Chances of getting at least 1 proc:96.5%

Between 3 to 5 GCDs you have a 58% chance of getting a lily/confession and that's low to you??? Or you think 3-5 GCDs in a 30 sec window is a spam???hmm...

Scenario 2 Chances of getting at LEAST 2 proc out of X attempts

For X=3; Chances of getting at least 2 proc:10.4%
For X=4; Chances of getting at least 2 proc:18.1%
For X=5; Chances of getting at least 2 proc:26.3%
For X=6; Chances of getting at least 2 proc:34.5%
For X=7; Chances of getting at least 2 proc:42.3%
For X=10; Chances of getting at least 2 proc:62.4%
For X=15; Chances of getting at least 2 proc:83.3%

Now!! here we can start our REASONABLE complaints without even having to see the next tier of probabilities!! It's extremely unlikely from here on out to get 2 or more confessions/lilies, and the reward we get for this EXTREMELY rare occurrence DOES NOT MATCH the RNG!! (Lilies will get its own separate post...) Getting 1 confession is highly probable and quiet rewarding, every 15 sec rewarding (if we get one). But getting 2 confessions is not at all likely without a serious spam of 10+ GCDs within a 30 sec window...to make it worse, we're only rewarded with a measly 100 more potency??....hmm...I not like that

Scenario 3 Chances of getting at LEAST 3 proc out of X attempts

For X=3; Chances of getting at least 3 proc:00.8% LULZ
For X=4; Chances of getting at least 3 proc:02.7% LULZ^2
For X=5; Chances of getting at least 3 proc:05.8% TRIPLE LULZ
For X=6; Chances of getting at least 3 proc:09.9% THIS AINT MEANT TO BE
For X=7; Chances of getting at least 3 proc:14.8% meh
For X=10; Chances of getting at least 3 proc:32.2% kinda noticeable
For X=15; Chances of getting at least 3 proc:60.2% about damn time.....

.....No words...#SE_fix_it.....OK A LOT OF WORDS!!! getting 3 lilies/confession outside of 10+ gcds (in a 30 sec window when it comes to confessions) is close to impossible!! And again the reward (...lilies will get its own post) confession jumps from initial potency of 400 for 1 confession to now 600!? Wow thx SE U gave us 200 more potency for basically winning the lottery. Never mind we had to spam 10 GCDs in a 30 sec time frame.

In Conclusion
The probability of getting 1 proc of lilies/confessions is very likely and encompasses all progression scenarios and nominal dungeon runs and even SPEED-TOP-TIER-RAID-FARMING-THAT-REALLY-DON'T-NEED-SHIT-HELP runs too!

However getting 2 or more lilies/confessions is sooo rare!! And the REWARD for their occurrences are lackluster!! There needs to be something done to make the occurrence more prevalent. Either make the reward POP !! MAKE IT A HUGE GAME CHANGER!! Or make it happen more consistently.

Next we'll talk about lilies and everything lilies....

**Metsonm** · 06-03-2017 08:58 PM

You say "what's stopping people just spreading Regen around on players not needing it?" as if people can't just sit casting Cure on players that don't need it.

They can very much be on regen. Maybe on application or fall-off, but there's no inherent difference between Cure and Regen for this purpose.

**inhaledcorn** · 06-03-2017 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Metsonm

You say "what's stopping people just spreading Regen around on players not needing it?" as if people can't just sit casting Cure on players that don't need it.

At least someone said it.

People who are playing suboptimally will probably continue to play suboptimally. However, if Lilies are tied to Regens rather than Cures, then the better players can actually get some of the benefit (even if the benefit is terrible as of right now) as opposed to completely ignoring the mechanic otherwise AND lose ability gated behind the liles. Sure, spreading Regens and Medica II is also suboptimal, BUT those players that are playing optimally to the best of their ability are getting some benefits from the Lily system.

**inhaledcorn** · 06-03-2017 09:23 PM

The lily system is far from perfect. The proc rate is too low (on top of being a proc on a proc) for too little a benefit (a Spear? We get a stinking Spear?! AND THEY ALWAYS GET CONSUMED?!). The WHM lost so many skills to the cross role system and didn't get enough back. The WHM has no identity. The Lily was their attempt at giving them one, and it failed miserably. "Pure Healer" doesn't work in this game. It never worked in this game. The only way it could work in this game is if they had team support OUT THE WAZOO to make up for lower personal DPS. Guess what? WHM has THE HIGHEST. This flies IN THE FACE of the WHM's design.

If they want a "pure healer", the AST should have been it. The AST actually HAS team support, a ton of it! They can TP regen, MP regen, Defense boost, Haste boost, and damage boost. On top of that, they aren't actively encouraged to ignore most of their kit to support the party.

**Gist** · 06-03-2017 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Skye_

They did this in 11 too. Whm was killed off.

You probably won't see this, but WHM99/SCH49 is pretty much the only viable healer in XI's endgame, which I think is what XIV developers are aiming to not have happen.

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