As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[era1Ne]

I don't think the extra clear speed is worth wiping when one player or the whole party suddenly takes a ton of unexpected damage and you either JUST turned on CS (and they end up dying due to the 5 second recast time) or end up running out of MP because of all the DPSing you had done. Maybe this only happens once in every 10 clears, but it's still your fault if you aren't prepared for that scenario by being out of CS and/or conserving MP.

The later would be your fault, since healers should always have enough mp to do their main job, which is of course still healing. But i disagree about the unexpected dmg or in other words, dmg the dd or tanks take, because they made an mistake. As a healer you should try to save them, no question about that, but ultimately they made the mistakes, so this is their fault.

[Lambdafish]

So far, I haven't seen any of these issues, though I haven't reached end-game content yet. As a healer, if I let someone die when I could have prevented it, I sometimes get anger directed at me (for good reason). My general rule of thumb is to DPS as much as I can with consideration given to potentialities. As a healer, I'm on the hook if I'm not ready to heal reactively within, say, 0.5 seconds. That's about how long it takes to cancel my DPS spell, turn off CS, and use an instant heal if necessary. So even if a DPS takes a stupid hit and needs healing, I can react in time. All one really needs to take into account is the 5 second recast time on CS. If you turn it on, you're locked out of healing properly for 5 seconds. That's why I cast HoT/Shield on the tank or group before I switch into it. I'm acting on the belief that nothing dangerous is going to happen within 5 seconds. If something dangerous does happen and I'm stuck in CS, then it's my fault if someone dies as a result.

I typically don't DPS at all in raids, except sometimes during DPS checks as necessary. If I have a really good party, I might consider it, but since most raids are not a DPS race, and just a game of careful patience, I don't think the extra clear speed is worth wiping when one player or the whole party suddenly takes a ton of unexpected damage and you either JUST turned on CS (and they end up dying due to the 5 second recast time) or end up running out of MP because of all the DPSing you had done. Maybe this only happens once in every 10 clears, but it's still your fault if you aren't prepared for that scenario by being out of CS and/or conserving MP.

You are playing healer exactly as the meta expects you to, this is best explanation of it that I have seen yet

[Sebazy]

Someone said to me recently, that to come on these forums I may be dealing with kids like in a school playground

What has this got to do with anything I just said?

and so trying to have intelligent conversations may be a complete waste of time

So wait, let me get this straight? Are you implying that I'm not capable of intelligent conversation because I don't agree with you?

Dps as healer is more potentially stressful. It does cause wipes and if you dont heal you get the blame for not doing your job.

How is this any different to a DPS that's over stretching, being greedy and failing mechanics? Causing wipes as a healer isn't a community or meta issue, that's just a lack of skill issue, same with any other job that's trying to juggle more than they can cope with.

Simple answer, DPS less but DPS smarter, think about what dots your casting where and how you can maximise your DPS per GCD. A great example of this is on A12's add phase, each wave of adds gives you 2 to 4 GCDs before they start hitting and there's tons of room for optimisation here:

The first wave I throw a pair of regens at the tanks, cleric stance and do 2 gravities + a swiftcast gravity if I'm feeling brave and haven't had to blow ED already (As a SCH I hope you've got Blizzard2 loaded for this wave).

Second wave I combust 2 the last two adds to die then combust 1 them as I move into to position to start aoe healing.

Third wave again, combust 2 both, then combust the physical add and start healing the tanks.

All of this is doable solo healing without a fairy.

Just waiting for abarrage of childish name calling next

You've asked for it in that post alone TBH.

[AmeliaVerves]

with no offence to amelia verves above that she stated above that she kicked a non dpsing healer. There is your pressure.

I had a Zurvex farm and went as WHM, but the SCH who joined refused to DPS even though I told him I will solo heal.
We cleared once (because I wanted to show him I actually can solo heal Zurvex) and he still refused, so I kicked him. There was nothing to heal for him.

There you go.
No stance dancing. No heals needed. Not. A. Single. One. From. Him.
How is that pressure? He literally just had to go into cleric and put/renew DOTs and throw ruin/broil.

I went as WHM because I know what I am capable of and because I know I can solo heal it. So I chose to be the main-heal in that group and wanted an off-healer that is basically just there if people mess up.
Noone messed up. It was a super smooth run, with incredibly high DPS, everyone was giving their best. Except SCH, who just idled around or casted unnecessary physicks which ended up in 100% overheal. -> Nice!

[Lambdafish]

There you go.
No stance dancing. No heals needed. Not. A. Single. One. From. Him.
How is that pressure? He literally just had to go into cleric and put/renew DOTs and throw ruin/broil.

I went as WHM because I know what I am capable of and because I know I can solo heal it. So I chose to be the main-heal in that group and wanted an off-healer that is basically just there if people mess up.
Noone messed up. It was a super smooth run, with incredibly high DPS, everyone was giving their best. Except SCH, who just idled around or casted unnecessary physicks which ended up in 100% overheal. -> Nice!

Don't worry, she referenced you as her sole evidence of this behavior, and I didn't take it as valid, quite the opposite, I took it as evidence that Feyona reads what she wants from a situation and misconstrues it to further her agenda. She has no leg to stand on unless she magically provides a tonne of evidence to support her wild accusations and claims.

[AmeliaVerves]

Don't worry, she referenced you as her sole evidence of this behavior, and I didn't take it as valid, quite the opposite, I took it as evidence that Feyona reads what she wants from a situation and misconstrues it to further her agenda.

Yeah, I already realized that.

The sad truth is: everyone is on her side when it comes to learning parties and unexperienced healers. Noone here would even want them to stress too much and just get used in their own pace.
Even tho it should be said that those people have no place in savage or extreme farming parties in the first place. It is harsh, I know, but we are talking about the hardest content the game has to offer. If you are not skilled enough to perform to your very best in a farm group, then join training parties and learn your job and the fight.
As soon as someone mastered that, there will be no forcing or stressing anymore, since the person will know what to do and when!

[Lambdafish]

Yeah, I already realized that.

The sad truth is: everyone is on her side when it comes to learning parties and unexperienced healers. Noone here would even want them to stress too much and just get used in their own pace.
Even tho it should be said that those people have no place in savage or extreme farming parties in the first place. It is harsh, I know, but we are talking about the hardest content the game has to offer. If you are not skilled enough to perform to your very best in a farm group, then join training parties and learn your job and the fight.
As soon as someone mastered that, there will be no forcing or stressing anymore, since the person will know what to do and when!

It kinda overlaps with another thread that I contributed to, but this is the big reason that I wish we had more tools for clarity in this game. I wish that players knew what level they were at, whether they are ready for farm, or raiding in general. Putting a PF up that says "farm party, no wipes or I will kick" sounds harsh and unfair, but it is a clear warning to the expectation of the party, and that the group needs to be on that level to complete the objective that has been set out, and players need to know for sure if that is them (some people think that clearing once on a fluke as a DRG is sufficient to join a farm party as a WHM...).

A good step forward is the raid finder only allowing you select farm if you have cleared the content, and I wish PF also had that option, it would create clarity, and prevent animosity and toxic behavior after the party has filled and started farming. I also think we as a community should develop more clarity, and perhaps new lingo that denotes the type of party that it is more clearly.

[Wanzer]

Someone said to me recently, that to come on these forums I may be dealing with kids like in a school playground, and so trying to have intelligent conversations may be a complete waste of time and after seeing some of the silly animated posts and posters Im forced to agree. Not saying its you or even most people here just one or two.

Subtle.

Just waiting for abarrage of childish name calling next

You can't expect flowers from people if you keep attacking them.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yeah, I already realized that.

The sad truth is: everyone is on her side when it comes to learning parties and unexperienced healers. Noone here would even want them to stress too much and just get used in their own pace.
Even tho it should be said that those people have no place in savage or extreme farming parties in the first place. It is harsh, I know, but we are talking about the hardest content the game has to offer. If you are not skilled enough to perform to your very best in a farm group, then join training parties and learn your job and the fight.
As soon as someone mastered that, there will be no forcing or stressing anymore, since the person will know what to do and when!

Unfortunately, a large portion of the community grants healers a built in excuse whereas the same courtesy is rarely afforded tanks and especially not DPS. I liken it to tanks who stay in Shield/Defiance/Grit for the entirety of a fight. Even at the more casual level, this is generally frowned upon yet healers who barely touch Cleric get a pass. Of course, all of the only applies to people who have content on farm. No one should expect optimal performance when people are still learning or getting comfortable with a new fight. But even a friend of mine called it arrogant to turn away heal only healers/demand DPS unless you're in a hardcore/world first caliber group regardless of how many clears. I'll never understand that mindset. Expecting healers to DPS isn't "I want orange numbers on FFlogs or GTFO." It's "I want you to equally contribute and improve with the group." FFXIV just isn't a game where that's possible if you only heal.

[Feyona]

There you go.
No stance dancing. No heals needed. Not. A. Single. One. From. Him.
How is that pressure? He literally just had to go into cleric and put/renew DOTs and throw ruin/broil.


Noone messed up. It was a super smooth run, with incredibly high DPS, everyone was giving their best. Except SCH, who just idled around or casted unnecessary physicks which ended up in 100% overheal. -> Nice!

No I had no intention of attacking you at all, in fact the opposite where people are saying that there was no evidence of non dps healers being kicked. If there were no heals necessary its a different thing. I will apologise though for stating it. In my experience some do need both healers to heal often if tank is in dps stance. Or people fail mechics alot. I did not have any bad intentions in it, was just statement that it happens. I think where Im coming from is I feel people may be uncomfortable with going in cleric, full stop, especially in new content. I do realise that maybe none of you have this attitude that consciousy puts pressure on I just think people may exprience what is demanded in different ways.