As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

Then find yourself better groups. That is what I do.
Pug group messing up, so I need to heal as SCH in Zurvex farm (more than good timed shields)? Bye bye. Find yourself someone else.
Is it harsh? Yes.
Is it rude? Maybe, not as if I care.


If you don't want to leave those underperforming groups you have to deal with the consequences: not being able to DPS as much as you could in a better group.
So since this is something you chose to deal with, I don't see the problem.
wait for it aka editing

Oh for sure but it takes all day to get a good group, literally. Even Thordan I was lucky to get 15 clears in a row out of one group, think it took a week to get 99 clears. 2 hours in pf to get a group in the first place, each time at least 3 people die in majority of groups. Plus a few actual wipes even thordan is a challenge for some still. Think it took all day to get a clear on zurvan once.

[AmeliaVerves]

PF is pain

I know that, but I lost the patience to carry those people.
Of course it's nice people like you exist that keep them in their group so those get their birds as well, but at the same time you actually 'teach' them it's ok to be this bad and still join a EXTREME Primal farm.

I decided for myself I wont promote this behaviour anymore and kick/leave group of anyone being not good enough for the fight. If it is my group in the first place I am free to chose with who I want to go into content, if it is someone elses group I simply leave. Not worth my time.

Same goes for my co heals that don't want to DPS.
I had a Zurvex farm and went as WHM, but the SCH who joined refused to DPS even though I told him I will solo heal.
We cleared once (because I wanted to show him I actually can solo heal Zurvex) and he still refused, so I kicked him. There was nothing to heal for him. So I freed him from the burden of being in my group and gave him the chance to live up to his playstyle somewhere else. '>.>

[Feyona]

I know that, but I lost the patience to carry those people.
Of course it's nice people like you exist that keep them in their group so those get their birds as well, but at the same time you actually 'teach' them it's ok to be this bad and still join a EXTREME Primal farm.

That is entirely up to you, but I guess I dont have that view I will still try with whatever Ive got. I have a sort of more acceptance towards those not comfortable with dps as healer. I do have alot of patience, and Im grateful for a clear. Like Ive said I dont mind it taking longer, I enjoy helping others, and I like to see people enjoying themselves even if they are getting carried I dont really care as long as its clearedI just wanted to add here that going in groups with friends is always more forgiving as you dont kick friends. I treat all people as friends, in a group. I know so many people have put up with me learning as well and I think its only fair to put up with others too, that do have less ability I know Im not the highest and Im not the lowest ability. My view is theres always someone better and always someone less able . I allow those less able to at least have a go if I can

[AmeliaVerves]

with no offence to amelia verves above that she stated above that she kicked a non dpsing healer. There is your pressure.

I had a Zurvex farm and went as WHM, but the SCH who joined refused to DPS even though I told him I will solo heal.
We cleared once (because I wanted to show him I actually can solo heal Zurvex) and he still refused, so I kicked him. There was nothing to heal for him.

There you go.
No stance dancing. No heals needed. Not. A. Single. One. From. Him.
How is that pressure? He literally just had to go into cleric and put/renew DOTs and throw ruin/broil.

I went as WHM because I know what I am capable of and because I know I can solo heal it. So I chose to be the main-heal in that group and wanted an off-healer that is basically just there if people mess up.
Noone messed up. It was a super smooth run, with incredibly high DPS, everyone was giving their best. Except SCH, who just idled around or casted unnecessary physicks which ended up in 100% overheal. -> Nice!

[Lambdafish]

There you go.
No stance dancing. No heals needed. Not. A. Single. One. From. Him.
How is that pressure? He literally just had to go into cleric and put/renew DOTs and throw ruin/broil.

I went as WHM because I know what I am capable of and because I know I can solo heal it. So I chose to be the main-heal in that group and wanted an off-healer that is basically just there if people mess up.
Noone messed up. It was a super smooth run, with incredibly high DPS, everyone was giving their best. Except SCH, who just idled around or casted unnecessary physicks which ended up in 100% overheal. -> Nice!

Don't worry, she referenced you as her sole evidence of this behavior, and I didn't take it as valid, quite the opposite, I took it as evidence that Feyona reads what she wants from a situation and misconstrues it to further her agenda. She has no leg to stand on unless she magically provides a tonne of evidence to support her wild accusations and claims.

[AmeliaVerves]

Don't worry, she referenced you as her sole evidence of this behavior, and I didn't take it as valid, quite the opposite, I took it as evidence that Feyona reads what she wants from a situation and misconstrues it to further her agenda.

Yeah, I already realized that.

The sad truth is: everyone is on her side when it comes to learning parties and unexperienced healers. Noone here would even want them to stress too much and just get used in their own pace.
Even tho it should be said that those people have no place in savage or extreme farming parties in the first place. It is harsh, I know, but we are talking about the hardest content the game has to offer. If you are not skilled enough to perform to your very best in a farm group, then join training parties and learn your job and the fight.
As soon as someone mastered that, there will be no forcing or stressing anymore, since the person will know what to do and when!

[Lambdafish]

Yeah, I already realized that.

The sad truth is: everyone is on her side when it comes to learning parties and unexperienced healers. Noone here would even want them to stress too much and just get used in their own pace.
Even tho it should be said that those people have no place in savage or extreme farming parties in the first place. It is harsh, I know, but we are talking about the hardest content the game has to offer. If you are not skilled enough to perform to your very best in a farm group, then join training parties and learn your job and the fight.
As soon as someone mastered that, there will be no forcing or stressing anymore, since the person will know what to do and when!

It kinda overlaps with another thread that I contributed to, but this is the big reason that I wish we had more tools for clarity in this game. I wish that players knew what level they were at, whether they are ready for farm, or raiding in general. Putting a PF up that says "farm party, no wipes or I will kick" sounds harsh and unfair, but it is a clear warning to the expectation of the party, and that the group needs to be on that level to complete the objective that has been set out, and players need to know for sure if that is them (some people think that clearing once on a fluke as a DRG is sufficient to join a farm party as a WHM...).

A good step forward is the raid finder only allowing you select farm if you have cleared the content, and I wish PF also had that option, it would create clarity, and prevent animosity and toxic behavior after the party has filled and started farming. I also think we as a community should develop more clarity, and perhaps new lingo that denotes the type of party that it is more clearly.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yeah, I already realized that.

The sad truth is: everyone is on her side when it comes to learning parties and unexperienced healers. Noone here would even want them to stress too much and just get used in their own pace.
Even tho it should be said that those people have no place in savage or extreme farming parties in the first place. It is harsh, I know, but we are talking about the hardest content the game has to offer. If you are not skilled enough to perform to your very best in a farm group, then join training parties and learn your job and the fight.
As soon as someone mastered that, there will be no forcing or stressing anymore, since the person will know what to do and when!

Unfortunately, a large portion of the community grants healers a built in excuse whereas the same courtesy is rarely afforded tanks and especially not DPS. I liken it to tanks who stay in Shield/Defiance/Grit for the entirety of a fight. Even at the more casual level, this is generally frowned upon yet healers who barely touch Cleric get a pass. Of course, all of the only applies to people who have content on farm. No one should expect optimal performance when people are still learning or getting comfortable with a new fight. But even a friend of mine called it arrogant to turn away heal only healers/demand DPS unless you're in a hardcore/world first caliber group regardless of how many clears. I'll never understand that mindset. Expecting healers to DPS isn't "I want orange numbers on FFlogs or GTFO." It's "I want you to equally contribute and improve with the group." FFXIV just isn't a game where that's possible if you only heal.

[Feyona]

Unfortunately, a large portion of the community grants healers a built in excuse whereas the same courtesy is rarely afforded tanks and especially not DPS. I liken it to tanks who stay in Shield/Defiance/Grit for the entirety of a fight. Even at the more casual level, this is generally frowned upon yet healers who barely touch Cleric get a pass.

I take the point, but I think thie whole issue is about , maybe too much expectation all round, possibly leading to resentment or comparisons of how much others have to do perhaps. Im not sure but it seems the message is everyone is expected to work their asses off that may be the consensus of this game but Im not sure if it allows for a more fun experience because most people say to me groups are much more fun if with friends where your not in fear of being kicked or shouted at etc

[Feyona]

Don't worry, she referenced you as her sole evidence of this behavior, and I didn't take it as valid, quite the opposite, I took it as evidence that Feyona reads what she wants from a situation and misconstrues it to further her agenda. She has no leg to stand on unless she magically provides a tonne of evidence to support her wild accusations and claims.

really lambadafish I provide at least some evidence it exists and the wild accusations about me are coming from you. I ve said before that you need a reality check. You dont like my point of view thats all this is is so you try to say it doesnt exist. It doesnt work because Im a main healer and and I ve xperienced it so I know it does. Denying it doesnt force it to not be there.