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  1. #231
    Player
    Katana190's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Katana Azurite
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFox View Post
    But it doesn't have to be, they could have tweaks to Hate modifiers that allow aggro to build much faster to make up for longer waits in attacks. Plus I am sure they would still have instant cast spells as well as every tank needs some kind of pull. Pair that up with a buff while in tank stance (which I guess would then ruin any chance of switching to OT stance while solo tanking) to allow them to not be interrupted but by normal means (Stun, silence and such). However I am all for it but only because I've yet to see a true "Mage" tank if that helps in wording, I don't consider Paladin or Dark Knight as a mage tank because they are still swinging metal for the majority of damage even if they can cast a spell or two.
    Yeah you cleared that up for me. Idk though I feel like SE has created their own identity for tanks to always be these heavy front-line fighters which I'm honestly as a tank main, okay with. It makes sense.

    I wouldn't mind a Mystic Knight or Blue Mage as a Tank, but to me it's pretty cringey when people want RDM as a Tank. I've seen some people really passionate about the idea of RDM as a Tank and I commend them for it for having a good imagination and giving me good write ups of how it would work, but that is like 20% of the people who want RDM as a Tank, the rest just say make RDM a Tank so they can have SAM as DPS.. I'm not entirely against the idea of a Magey tank, but I would like it saved for another job and not RDM. Just my take on the matter.
    (1)

  2. #232
    Player
    Thunda_Cat_SMASH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Sylvana Tenebri
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 79
    Quote Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
    How does a magical tank stand out more? 2 of the 3 tanks we have are magic users. Paladin had numerous magical abilities including ones with actual cast bars even.
    This is unequivocally false. PLD only has two spells, and only one of them has a cast bar, those being Flash and Clemency respectively. DRK is also only a magic tank in that they have three spells, 4 if you include Dark Passenger. Neither of these tanks incorporate magic in their single target damage dealing, and DA isn't magic, but the Abyss. As of now, there's no tanks that incorporate magic and weapon play into their core play style, which optimal usage would involve using both offensive and defensive magics and balancing aggressive weapon play. Red Mage fits as a magic tank. DRK is more accurately described as an antimage tank.
    (1)

  3. #233
    Player
    AlphaFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,638
    Character
    Rena Ryuugu
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 80
    Honestly, if everyone got their way we would have nothing but DPS for the majority it seems. I mean RDM or SAM, I wouldn't argue whichever one gets the Tank or DPS slot, but in the end we will have someone mad and raging on the forum about the final choice.
    (0)

  4. #234
    Player
    Shippuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Shippuu Nammuu
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by ReplicaX View Post
    What does PLD bring to the table with offensive magic? Sword Oath? Just because it uses MP? Flash? No dmg and not its purpose.
    Now you're just moving the goalposts and making it something that is incredibly specific. You don't want a "magic themed" tank, because we have 2 of those, you want a very specific type of magic themed, spellcasting job.
    We have no GCD Magic Casting Tank. Which is different and unique.
    It's also impossible to implement into this game without a ton of special exceptions needing to be made to how casting works. The job would need to have either only instant cast spells (Which is no different then the other magic using tanks.) Or they can both move and not be interrupted from damage while casting spells, given tanks have to move often for all manner of reasons. Even if you do all that, none of that are things that can't be applied as well to a different job in a different way, even to Samurai. Samurai in some Final Fantasy games are strong magic attackers, in Tactics they summon spirits from their swords etc. And applying "cast times" to melee attacks/physical attacks is also something that can be done, as has been done in many MMO's specifically, where melee classes have charge up or even channeled abilities. Some from a gameplay mechanic perspective, those elements can be added to Samurai just as easily, and not necessarily restricted to just Red Mage.

    The other glaring flaw with the premise of a tank that deals entirely in magic damage creates problems with encounters in the game. How would a tank who deals their damage via magic damage, tank enemies and bosses who become immune to magic damage? Such as the second boss in Void Ark? Or how about in Turn 4 Binding Coil, where some enemies have magic reflect aspects to them? Why would groups bring a tank that then takes extra damage for no reason from these enemies?

    So they'd have to go through and remove all of those mechanics from fights where that was the problem (Or give this "mage tank" special exceptions which then, it literally doesn't matter what kind of damage type they deal) as well as then not being able to ever use that kind of mechanic in any future fight either.

    That's not even touching the itemization issues that would come from this unless they wear heavy armor.
    (5)
    Last edited by Shippuu; 12-20-2016 at 08:59 AM.

  5. #235
    Player
    Slirith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    941
    Character
    Astarotte Niuhali
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    I don't think Yoshida and the rest of the FFXIV team are stupid enough to make the same mistake again(Turning a dps job into a tank)
    (0)

  6. #236
    Player GMERC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    377
    Character
    Saltire Dalamiq
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 73
    Quote Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
    a good post
    In complete agreement, the "mage tank" meme should definitely go. There's a difference between magical theming on the likes of Dark Knight (yes i know it's not literal magic) and Paladin (with their heals, their magical and supporting aspects being something i definitely hope they expand on going forward) and the suggestion of a tank that exclusively uses magic, for a myriad of reasons Shippuu laid out.

    I think you'd have an easier time getting a 'magically-themed tank' out of Viking than Red Mage, ya feel me?



    Slap a shield on this and you're good to go.
    (1)

  7. #237
    Player
    Shippuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Shippuu Nammuu
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH View Post
    This is unequivocally false. PLD only has two spells, and only one of them has a cast bar, those being Flash and Clemency respectively.
    Except it's not unequivocally false. Cure, Stoneskin, Protect, Raise. While they're cross-classed abilities, they're still hard casted spells. Stoneskin is a staple move used by any PLD worth their salt while the others not so much. That doesn't mean they don't have access to them. Even then, Clemency had a notoriously long cooldown that had to be significantly reduced because it was night unusable and even now it has limited use due to the time it takes to cast and it's potential to be interrupted.
    DRK is also only a magic tank in that they have three spells, 4 if you include Dark Passenger. Neither of these tanks incorporate magic in their single target damage dealing, and DA isn't magic, but the Abyss. As of now, there's no tanks that incorporate magic and weapon play into their core play style, which optimal usage would involve using both offensive and defensive magics and balancing aggressive weapon play. Red Mage fits as a magic tank. DRK is more accurately described as an antimage tank.
    Dark Arts is absolutely magic, it's referred to specifically in things such as the official Lore Book as "The inner darkness lends an arcande edge to their attacks". The entry for Darkness talks about using aether, and even their defensive abilities are referred as creating arcane barriers. So, you're wrong.

    Dark Knight is absolutely a magic tank. And Paladin is as well to a degree, by just about every definition. You're in absolute denial.
    (8)

  8. #238
    Player
    NoctisShiva's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Noctis Shiva
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 60
    sure everyone has their opinion, but i really dont see the logic behind wanting to push RDM , well i know it as a light-armored job , into a tank wearing heavy armor and SAM already wearing heavy armor, who could perfectly fit as a tank to be dd ,not saying I cant see SAM to be a dd , it could fit that role , but I cant honestly see a RDM as a tank

    for that magic tank thing, we already got DRK for that, and with the expansion we are getting a few new skills, i can imagine that PLD could get some holy-like spells or something similiar making him more like a mystik knight or such thing so there you have your magic tank

    I wont say something about how the job could work out, cause SE could make any job into any role they want and it could make sense, you could give SAM a ceremonial sword/ katana and he stands in the back, performing some rituals and summoning spirits to heal and shield everybody, we dont have a sword wielding healer either , so why not making him a healer? SAM healer ftw o.o'

    getting a bit more serious again, I dont care if SAM turns out to be a dd or tank ( since i just want my RDM melee job ) but I think SAM can fill the tank role really good, but all we can do is wait and see maybe we're getting more dds this expansion not just one and a complete other type of tank, a monk-type of job with a huge wooden rod - dont know the name of that weapon - who can do blunt dmg

    oh and dont say we dont have a sword wielding dps job, sure our swords might not be as big as those big ones from the black .. äh dark knights but give us NINs some love ;_;
    (2)

  9. #239
    Player CaedemSanguis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,106
    Character
    Benedikta Harman
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    I dont think SE will implemented a second two handed sword tank, we already have drk. So the only problem is how a red mage can be a tank ?

    I personnaly think its possible to make a spellcasting tank with lightweight armor
    (0)

  10. #240
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,887
    Character
    Edwin Li
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by GMERC View Post
    -----
    I picture a Hammer Tank to be more of a two-handed type.

    That picture plus a shield will just be a Mace/shield Job which for some reason RPGs tend to relate more to Paladin/holy knight/priest type Jobs.

    Two-handed Hammer would certainly fit more for Viking in my opinion.
    (0)
    Last edited by EdwinLi; 12-20-2016 at 12:02 PM.

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