@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

[Katana190]

But I'm clearly a Pro SAM Tank, that isn't a Tank. And I clearly state about if it was a DPS I would laugh at them for getting another dual wielding DPS even if it was historical. I don't see the point your trying to make.
Fair enough though, if it's a DPS I can see the reason for it using a 2-Handed Katana, I'll admit, but if it turns out to be a Tank I would like to avoid that choice of weaponry as we already have 2, 2 Hander Tanks.

[Kiyashi]

We already have enough tanks in this game. We have 3 which brings to the table enough to choose w/e you want to bring to a fight. A hard hitting physical damage taker in PLD, a magic debuffer and magical hit taking tank in DRK, and the high HP hardest hitting off tank in WAR. What the heck else would another tank bring? more parry? they already said they're changing that in 4.0 so I don't see what else you would need from another tank class.

Also, the queue times stuff is temporary. Once everyone is lvl 70 and at end game it'll be the same as it is now so you're still looking for tanks and such for end game content. A new tank class isn't going to fix that. I just say keep it what it's always been in the FF games as that being a 2 handed hard hitting DPS. They could even chain skill with their abilities kinda like in FFXI they could solo skillchain and do massive damage that way. RDM's are getting s system like that so I don't see why SAM couldn't get a similar system like that but in melee form.

[Shippuu]

We already have enough tanks in this game. We have 3 which brings to the table enough to choose w/e you want to bring to a fight. A hard hitting physical damage taker in PLD, a magic debuffer and magical hit taking tank in DRK, and the high HP hardest hitting off tank in WAR. What the heck else would another tank bring? more parry? they already said they're changing that in 4.0 so I don't see what else you would need from another tank class.

We already have enough dps in this game. We have 3 melee dps which brings to the table enough to choose w/e you want to bring to a fight. What the heck else would another DPS bring? More damage?

See, I can do it too.

Also, the queue times stuff is temporary. Once everyone is lvl 70 and at end game it'll be the same as it is now so you're still looking for tanks and such for end game content. A new tank class isn't going to fix that.

It's a good thing a new tank job doesn't need to fix that to be entirely justified in being added to the game then, huh.

I just say keep it what it's always been in the FF games as that being a 2 handed hard hitting DPS. They could even chain skill with their abilities kinda like in FFXI they could solo skillchain and do massive damage that way. RDM's are getting s system like that so I don't see why SAM couldn't get a similar system like that but in melee form.

I mean except for all those games where Samurai had a bunch of defensive, supportive, and counter-attacking abilities. Especially in FFXI where they were certainly designed with tanking elements in mind and being able to avoid damage.

So by your argument, RDM are getting a skillchain-like system, so good, DPS got one, so there's room for a tank to have a skillchain-like system since DPS already have one. Your arguments are as weak as they are common.

[Kiyashi]

I mean except for all those games where Samurai had a bunch of defensive, supportive, and counter-attacking abilities. Especially in FFXI where they were certainly designed with tanking elements in mind and being able to avoid damage.

So by your argument, RDM are getting a skillchain-like system, so good, DPS got one, so there's room for a tank to have a skillchain-like system since DPS already have one. Your arguments are as weak as they are common.

You mean all those FF games where SAM was classified as a heavy damage DPS? Yes I know. That also includes XI since that was my main for the entire 10 years I played it.

Those defensive abilities were there for the survivability of the SAM whenever they would pull hate from the tank b/c of the high spike damage from self skill chaining. They were never expected to or required to tank anything in XI. You brought the deeps and that was it.

I will give you this though, with a -physical damage down set, which I had one, you could tank a good number of end game stuff. But it wasn't a requirement or were you expected to. You were expected to pump out high numbers with all the TP regen abilities and being able to solo a lvl 3 skill chain like light and dark.

Same argument with DRK. This is the first FF where it broke tradition and made it into a tank class. DRK has always been a heavy DPS class. But Yoshida has shown he isn't afraid to break those traditions. Me personally, I apologize but I expect the jobs to play as they've always been and not break those traditions. DRK in my opinion should've been a DPS in Heavensward. The same opinion I'm giving with SAM now. If we need more Tanks then there's plenty of actual tanks roles they haven't tapped into in past FF games.

As for my arguments being weak, sorry my opinions don't catter to yours, but mine at least have history while yours is just blind fanboyism wanting it to be a class b/c that's what you want it to be and not what it's traditionally been. That's about as weak as you can get sorry to tell you.

[Shippuu]

You mean all those FF games where SAM was classified as a heavy damage DPS? Yes I know.

[Citation Needed]

But hey, just like all those games where DRK was a dps right?

Those defensive abilities were there for the survivability of the SAM whenever they would pull hate from the tank b/c of the high spike damage from self skill chaining. They were never expected to or required to tank anything in XI. You brought the deeps and that was it.

Except they weren't really, considering other aspects of it's design, including +enmity on it's AF armor, which was a trait only featured on WAR and PLD AF, tanking roles. (Later some was added to THF's AF2, yet they actively have abilities utilizing enmity manipulation). SAM had nothing to actually shed hate like other DPS jobs (i.e. DRG), and the risk/reward mechanic was DRK's things. SAM in FFXI was absolutely intended to be a tank, but due to the team's poor ability to actually make it work delegated it to it's DPS role and they rolled with that. Just because they failed to make it work as a tank as they intended doesn't mean it still didn't have the trappings for it.

Same argument with DRK. This is the first FF where it broke tradition and made it into a tank class. DRK has always been a heavy DPS class. But Yoshida has shown he isn't afraid to break those traditions. Me personally, I apologize but I expect the jobs to play as they've always been and not break those traditions. DRK in my opinion should've been a DPS in Heavensward. The same opinion I'm giving with SAM now. If we need more Tanks then there's plenty of actual tanks roles they haven't tapped into in past FF games.

It's almost like every job is a DPS in past Final Fantasy games...almost as if there wasn't such a thing as an MMO trinity in those games. How weird is that? DRK still has every single other trapping required to fit FFXIV's vision of what a tank is. If you had your way, every job would be a DPS, because reality check, there aren't at all that many "actual tanks" to pick from in past FF games, especially none of which have anywhere close to the popularity and appeal that Samurai has, which is something you want in all of your tank jobs.

As for my arguments being weak, sorry my opinions don't catter to yours, but mine at least have history while yours is just blind fanboyism wanting it to be a class b/c that's what you want it to be and not what it's traditionally been. That's about as weak as you can get sorry to tell you.

Considering your "history" involves talking about just one game (FFXI) and you simply ignoring/writing off all the other evidence that contradicts it...If anyone is being blind here it's you.

[Empress]

Snip

I mean to be fair, they had insane damage previous games the less health they had but um if they had to have like 100 or so hp in dungeons with aoes that hit everyone that are unavoidable because thats how they can maximize dps it would just be annoying lol. They have potential to be high damage dps but because of the whole sacrifice hp mechanic couldn't work with current mechanics it would just drop you on the floor faster than a Dragoon.

[SpookyGhost]

...

Just popping in to say that I hope SAM is a tank in 4.0 just for you, Shippuu. You care about what role SAM is more than anyone else on the OF, so you really deserve this bit of joy in your life. I hope it's everything you want it to be, truly.

[Katana190]

We already have enough tanks in this game.

I really despise this quote, because I hear it so often. If you really think that, then you obviously don't want this game to live long because the Tank population will just die out from boredom.

[Enur]

i will repeat what i stated on my idea for a SAM tank in another thread:

A Samurai, in my head, is a lighter yet sturdier, tank.

I believe SAM would be suited best as a STR based tank, sharing their gearpool with DRG.
Unlike the other tanks, SAM would have a lower than average healthpool, and lower armorpoints.

To make up for this, they will "Stagger" the damage they receive (A la Brewmaster monk from WoW) example: Recieve 100 damage, instead of getting hit by all 100 points immediatly it would receive 10 damage over 10 seconds. Unlike the other tanks, this will allow SAM to survive much larger hits, if the healers can cope. Of course this would also include several mitigation techniques, cancelling out the built up "stag" etc.

Sharing gear with DRG is intentional. If all future tanks wear fending, it will create an unfair advantage in gearing. melee DPS jobs currrently have to gear up individually. Sharing with DRG might also help increase the overal number of tanks. More DRGs might be tempted to try it out, when they get a fully decked out SAM gearset just by getting their own gear. If SAM wears Fending, where do we draw the line? the fifth tank? sixth? it would just be silly at that point.