SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[ShinMetsu]

Its like us tanks aren't people... Its kinda insulting for people to think the queue times are the only thing dictating the SAM spot to try and justify it to a DPS. Seeing a trend with how incredibly selfish the DPS side opinions (All I'm hearing is muh SAM DPS, give tanks the uninteresting/makes no sense tank and give us the DPS spot) are as opposed with the tank side opinions being more factual and logical.(See Shippuu, lots of logic and fact)

Edit: I'm not aiming this to the person I replied to for clarification.

That argument is such a load of bullcr*p. Give tanks the uninteresting / makes no sense tank (anything but SAM)? There are way more interesting concepts than SAM.
You're undermining people's argument's like crazy. And here you are asking SAM to be a direct replacement to WAR, which you've been stuck on and trying to switch from? How is that not entirely selfish?

Logical and factual arguments? DRG has heavy armor, but is a DPS? MNK uses leather, but had Taunt in 1.0?
Also, about the queue times. A different kind of tank, one that is more Mage-like, would help the queue times way more in the long run.

[Katana190]

That argument is such a load of bullcr*p. Give tanks the uninteresting / makes no sense tank (anything but SAM)? There are way more interesting concepts than SAM.
You're undermining people's argument's like crazy. And here you are asking SAM to be a direct replacement to WAR, which you've been stuck on and trying to switch from? How is that not entirely selfish?

Logical and factual arguments? DRG has heavy armor, but is a DPS? MNK uses leather, but had Taunt in 1.0?
Also, about the queue times. A different kind of tank, one that is more Mage-like, would help the queue times way more in the long run.

Right as I mentioned in previous posts, my opinion is biased but I will stand by it, I thought over a Red Mage tank as well and think that would be awesome so I can agree there, but this is a SAM thread so I'm trying to stay on topic here. Anyways to your point about my selfish
opinion about WAR? Your so wrong in thinking I'm selfish because of that... Melee can switch between the melee in a raid environment, ranged can switch between the ranged, "main tank" can switch between pld/drk, "main healer" whm/ast, casters blm/smner... Sch and War are essential jobs to raiding,idm if the new tank is a war rep SAM or not but I love SAM so I stated my opinion I would like it to become the new tank, my points stand about DPS opinions being pretty selfish and feeling insulted by people thinking we don't need anymore tanks, was more of a reaction from thinking this game only needs 3 tanks.

[ShinMetsu]

Right as I mentioned in previous posts, my opinion is biased but I will stand by it, I thought over a Red Mage tank as well and think that would be awesome so I can agree there, but this is a SAM thread so I'm trying to stay on topic here. Anyways to your point about my selfish
opinion about WAR? Your so wrong in thinking I'm selfish because of that... Melee can switch between the melee in a raid environment, ranged can switch between the ranged, "main tank" can switch between pld/drk, "main healer" whm/ast, casters blm/smner... Sch and War are essential jobs to raiding,idm if the new tank is a war rep SAM or not but I love SAM so I stated my opinion I would like it to become the new tank, my points stand about DPS opinions being pretty selfish and feeling insulted by people thinking we don't need anymore tanks, was more of a reaction from thinking this game only needs 3 tanks.

The lack in variety for Off-tanks is a valid argument, i'll give you as much. Though i don't see it as pressing.
WARs actually make pretty nifty Main tanks too, and DRK make pretty damn good Off tanks.
Those limitations are created by player choice really, although developers are at fault for making Storm's Eye so valuable, making a WAR in every party a no-brainer really.

On the other matter, i'll have to disagree.
This is a SAM thread, yes. But considering what other jobs they could introduce alongside SAM is too big a factor to ignore in my opinion.
Which gives room for more interesting concepts for tanking. (I haven't seen anyone write up an interesting SAM tank concept yet, maybe someone should try)

Don't get me wrong btw, i'll be happy either way actually.
I've been tanking in ffxiv for 5 years :P And i love SAM pretty much more than any other job.
So i wouldn't mind if i got to play SAM a lot more with it being a tank, but i'd be sad because i have this image of SAM being a 'bringer of destruction'.
Seeing it have tank damage would totally destroy that image for me.
Edit: Oh, and yeah. It seems pretty boring to get more of the same tanking stuff. But hope that someone can present a nice SAM tank concept that looks appealing.

[Katana190]

The lack in variety for Off-tanks is a valid argument, i'll give you as much. Though i don't see it as pressing.
WARs actually make pretty nifty Main tanks too, and DRK make pretty damn good Off tanks.
Those limitations are created by player choice really, although developers are at fault for making Storm's Eye so valuable, making a WAR in every party a no-brainer really.

On the other matter, i'll have to disagree.
This is a SAM thread, yes. But considering what other jobs they could introduce alongside SAM is too big a factor to ignore in my opinion.
Which gives room for more interesting concepts for tanking. (I haven't seen anyone write up an interesting SAM tank concept yet, maybe someone should try)

Don't get me wrong btw, i'll be happy either way actually.
I've been tanking in ffxiv for 5 years :P And i love SAM pretty much more than any other job.
So i wouldn't mind if i got to play SAM a lot more with it being a tank, but i'd be sad because i have this image of SAM being a 'bringer of destruction'.
Seeing it have tank damage would totally destroy that image for me.
Edit: Oh, and yeah. It seems pretty boring to get more of the same tanking stuff. But hope that someone can present a nice SAM tank concept that looks appealing

Huh, good points. I'll admit some things I've said are wrong and are just formed of biased opinion wanting SAM as tank so much, but if there's one thing this thread has done is change my opinion slightly, from only wanting SAM to seeing the amount of other viable tanking candidates, RDM seems like a really interesting one, although people will have to come to terms that it will share fending gear and not have exclusive gear. I can agree the thread isn't only about SAM anymore so I wasn't right there either. And I'm aware WAR can make a good MT haha, its just the niche is PLD/DRK MT and WAR OT, been tanking since 2.0, not as long as 1.0 but the game has changed a lot since then! Regardless I just hope SE can come up with something to get out of this pigeon hole known as WAR and SCH

[EdwinLi]

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Red Mage does have a history in FF series for being able to equip Heavy Armor which does allow it to fit into a Tank for FF14. The only matter of it is how SE may adjust Red Mage in the FF14 version if it is a Tank Job because they can not simply copy and paste skills from White Mage and Black Mage here but may have to use new skills unique to to FF14 version without giving up Red Mage's identity to use both White and Black Magic.

I still think Red Mage may prove to be a more interesting tank job with one possible mechanic as White Magic being the Protective Tank abilities (improve defense and damage reduction through magic means such as barriers or auras with unique effects) and Black Magic as the Destructive DPS abilities (causing damage and generating aggro).

[Katana190]

Red Mage does have a history in FF series for being able to equip Heavy Armor which does allow it to fit into a Tank for FF14. The only matter of it is how SE may adjust Red Mage in the FF14 version if it is a Tank Job because they can not simply copy and paste skills from White Mage and Black Mage here but may have to use new skills unique to to FF14 version without giving up Red Mage's identity to use both White and Black Magic.

I still think Red Mage may prove to be a more interesting tank job with one possible mechanic as White Magic being the Protective Tank abilities and Black Magic as the Destructive DPS abilities.

White magic, Self healing tank hype? Get 2.0's WAR right lol. Black magic... Hmm it can't exactly use Fire IV and I'm not much of an FF veteran (this makes it difficult to comment on the forums sometimes) so I don't know all BLM abilities.. I'm sure there are lots if abilities they'll have access to though. Thinking about RDM tank makes me hyped though even though it might not happen, it sounds really interesting, we'll have whm = healer, blm = dps, rdm = tank. This makes my mind at war if I want SAM or RDM as tank now D': Their both really aesthetic and iconic I would be happy with either. And as mentioned above, I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge of the FF titles but I saw a few comments back or it was another thread.. That RDM would use boots,legs and gloves of fending but different chest and helm, which doesn't sound within the confinements of this game

[EdwinLi]

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A rundown of White Magic, since you already said you don't know much about FF series, is that it contains 2 aspects of Magic and does not cover only Healing Magic.

Recovery Magic is the Healing skills you are speaking about and is what White Magic is commonly known for but there is also Support Magic which is the Protection/Damage Reduction aspect of White Magic.

I am speaking more about Red Mage Tank using more of the Support aspect of White Magic such as using White Magic skills such as Deflect to reflect certain attacks back at enemies for a short time and Shell to place a Magic Barrier around themself to improve their own defense. They can use Crusade as their Aggro grab skill if they lose aggro on a enemy and use skills like Dia to allow them to cause more damage on their targets for easier aggro generation through damage.

[Rbstr]

White magic, Self healing tank hype? Get 2.0's WAR right lol. Black magic... Hmm it can't exactly use Fire IV and I'm not much of an FF veteran (this makes it difficult to comment on the forums sometimes) so I don't know all BLM abilities.. I'm sure there are lots if abilities they'll have access to though. Thinking about RDM tank makes me hyped though even though it might not happen, it sounds really interesting, we'll have whm = healer, blm = dps, rdm = tank. This makes my mind at war if I want SAM or RDM as tank now D': Their both really aesthetic and iconic I would be happy with either. And as mentioned above, I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge of the FF titles but I saw a few comments back or it was another thread.. That RDM would use boots,legs and gloves of fending but different chest and helm, which doesn't sound within the confinements of this game

I do think a RDM tank would be pretty neato. The one thing is that you already have one tank with a mana managment mechanic so you'd want to do something different.
My concept would be some kind of 1/2 hand melee weapon, high-HP, receive higher healing, and do self-shielding as the main mitigation (Like DRK was kind of PLD-patterned, this would be more WAR-patterned). They'd have like a instant stoneskin type CD, maybe something inner beast like for shields. Their combos and damage stuff would each have en-spell flavor of fire/ice/thunder.

Their aesthetic and animations would be a little less "Tough" and more "technique". It should continue to use Fending gear though.

[ADVSS]

TY all the words i couldnt say. Shin

[Shippuu]

That argument is such a load of bullcr*p. Give tanks the uninteresting / makes no sense tank (anything but SAM)? There are way more interesting concepts than SAM.

That's an opinion. Still doesn't change that Samurai is pretty much the most requested job to be added to the game. So it doesn't really matter what's interesting, only what's a safer bet. A RDM tank would be interesting, sure, it's also a bigger step away from it's traditional identity as well as all kinds of other issues like itemization.

Logical and factual arguments? DRG has heavy armor, but is a DPS? MNK uses leather, but had Taunt in 1.0?
Also, about the queue times. A different kind of tank, one that is more Mage-like, would help the queue times way more in the long run.

DRG wears heavy armor, sure. It could have been a tank if SE wanted it to. It also doesn't have much history with abilities that shielded or defended others.

You're also greatly overplaying the 1.0 pugilist skill taunt. Which only directed the enemy towards the pugilist for 5 seconds (which wasn't very long in the slow pace of 1.0, we're talking about one enemy attack.) They had zero moves that built or increased their enmity, and the ability was removed in 2.0 so it's a moot point at this rate.

I also disagree that a mage/casting tank would help queue times more in the long run. You're taking a playstyle that is not shared with other tanks and while it's an interesting idea it makes it incredibly harder to balance in-line with the other tanks, on top of itemization if they don't wear fending armor. And even then, it would have to be one of the more requested mage jobs (RDM or BLU) which comes with the same flak as taking SAM and making it a tank instead of a DPS as those players will complain as well. SAM tank is generally the path of least resistance from a develop standpoint.