SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[EdwinLi]

Like I said few post ago, what class can compite with Samurai in popularity to balance the DF in the first days of launch? Dark Knigh on 3.0 was massively popular to the point that on first weeks the DPS got insta queues while tanks got a normal queues and sometimes long queues.
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You do know 1 week is a very short life span compared to the entire life of this MMO. For a Tank to be successful they must last longer than 1 week or 1 month but to the point that tank player base actually increase enough to have a noticable effect beyond 3 months and the Player actually contine to player that tank Job for max level content and endgame.

The 1 week popularity was not actually popularity but a large amount of people were more curious and test out Dark Knight to see what it can do and what does it offer. However once they hit lvl 60 their loyality to the Tank Role was tested as that is when they must either accept the large negative amount of responsibility as a Tank or abandon Dark knight for a DPS or Healer Job.

Also how you are picturing what a Viking Tank may be like is being based on what you know about it from its past role in FF games. What Viking Job ends up as in FF14 can be completely different from Warrior since FF14 gameplay is different from FF3 gameplay which means they can start introducing new mechanics unique to FF14 version of the Jobs and even completely new gameplay.

[Shippuu]

Also how you are picturing what a Viking Tank may be like is being based on what you know about it from its past role in FF games. What Viking Job ends up as in FF14 can be completely different from Warrior since FF14 gameplay is different from FF3 gameplay which means they can start introducing new mechanics unique to FF14 version of the Jobs and even completely new gameplay.

I'm not even talking about potential abilities or play styles they can use all kinds of things regardless of the outward shell (viking, samurai whatever.)

I'm talking about the overall visual aesthetic. How is a viking stylistically different from a warrior? It isn't, warrior covers both the viking and berserker aesthetics, even if you give them a warhammer which isn't any different than a great axe except for the damage type.

Why would they give us a job that looks exactly like warrior over something that has a unique and iconic appearance that is vastly more popular.

[Kyuuen]

I'm not even talking about potential abilities or play styles they can use all kinds of things regardless of the outward shell (viking, samurai whatever.)

I'm talking about the overall visual aesthetic. How is a viking stylistically different from a warrior? It isn't, warrior covers both the viking and berserker aesthetics, even if you give them a warhammer which isn't any different than a great axe except for the damage type.

Why would they give us a job that looks exactly like warrior over something that has a unique and iconic appearance that is vastly more popular.

The reverse of that can be equally true though. What is Sam as a tank? Two handed sword wielder that parry's attacks. Sounds exactly like Warrior AND Dark Knight. Which is why I like the idea of Sam being a DPS as we have nothing; in melee, that is two handed as DPS... beside Dragoon.

[DWolfwood]

You do know 1 week is a very short life span compared to the entire life of this MMO.

Anyone who actually believes the effect to only go this far is seriously deluding themselves. There are still people playing the tank role now for the first time, trying out endgame and wanting to stick with it simply because they wanted to be a Dark Knight. There are still people leveling it for this reason as well. Every time we see a "DRK new to tanking, looking for advice" thread, we're seeing the effect it had in creating more tanks for the endgame community. Every person new to MMOs is going to feel the enticement of playing DRK, and consequently tanking because of it. It never goes away.

The reverse of that can be equally true though. What is Sam as a tank? Two handed sword wielder that parry's attacks. Sounds exactly like Warrior AND Dark Knight. Which is why I like the idea of Sam being a DPS as we have nothing; in melee, that is two handed as DPS... beside Dragoon.

This point is moot because, when we play the game of flipping the argument, we see that DPS already has an eastern job that wields katanas. You might argue that "those katanas aren't the same," and you're correct. Just like a katana is not the same thing as a battleaxe nor greatsword.

[Kyuuen]

This point is moot because, when we play the game of flipping the argument, we see that DPS already has an eastern job that wields katanas. You might argue that "those katanas aren't the same," and you're correct. Just like a katana is not the same thing as a battleaxe nor greatsword.

The rest of the underlying point is that both Warrior and Dark Knight are both two handed, parry based tanks. Sam is a two handed class that would be parry based if included as a Tank.

[Kyuuen]

Viking is very similar to a barbarian/berserk, and we already have one, the Warrior. Also, you think that Viking will be more interesting than Samurai to balance the DF queues in case of Viking tank and Samurai DPS? Only people who played FFIII know this class, and it i basically a berserk. Like I said few post ago, what class can compite with Samurai in popularity to balance the DF in the first days of launch? Dark Knigh on 3.0 was massively popular to the point that on first weeks the DPS got insta queues while tanks got a normal queues and sometimes long queues.

Exactly, I said that several post ago. It is undestanblade. But still, I don't like one of the excuses for not being tnk. "We have already 2 sword wielding tanks" And? The game shuld be balanced in gameplay and jobs, but nothing about what weapon should have.

Adding a new tank doesn't balance out duty finder. It'll add a new class to the tank roster that people will experiment with for the first few weeks, but ultimately will fall back to those that have an interest in tanking.

[Ciri_Wolf]

I think queue times are the silliest reason to make a class. If a class is popular and only lowers the queue times for a couple weeks before getting dropped, it's failed as a class. Just as silly as too many sword tanks.

[MagiusNecros]

All I'm gonna say is if they make SAM a DPS they better make RDM a Tank so I have a magic class for all 3 roles.

[Nalien]

All I'm gonna say is if they make SAM a DPS they better make RDM a Tank so I have a magic class for all 3 roles.

I'd prefer Blue Mage for mage tank... I can see Samurai having a solid counter based tanking style, but I can also see Blue Mage having pretty much the exact same thing, given how Blue Magic typically works.

Red Mage strikes me as either a Summoner style melee DPS (pointlessly having a cure and raise), or just a healer with a few melee tricks... While there are mechanics that call for the healer to distance themselves, are they ever something going on for the entire fight? Even if they're not, mechanics knocking out certain skills is nothing new at all... My Dark Knight cannot use Reprisal when OTing or when facing purely magic based enemies... Could always just slap Mystic Knight/Sword Mage in there like XI did, and give Red Mage En spells to act sort of like Sword Oath, could even work as a party buff... Could make its auto-attacks impressive, but if it's not in a situation where it can melee, it's boosting the parties auto-attacks.

I think ideally I'd like to see;

Samurai - Range/Melee hybrid DPS, no silly support gimmicks like Bard/Machinist, instead a strong focus on building up with a bow and executing finishers with a katana. Rather than directional bonuses, I'd like to see distance based ones, with some Plunge/Repelling Shot style skills to make moving about easier.

Blue Mage - Counter-based tank, INT as main stat so uses Casters gear, Clerics Stance style skill to allow such gear to be used for tanking.

Red Mage - DPS that hijacks Summoners DoT > Fester mechanics, DoTs are magic based, Fester is melee/fencing based.

Summoner - Drop the DoTs and double down entirely on the pet/summoning aspect of the Job, ideally with a rotation that focuses on various Primal Trances, rather than Egi...

Dancer - DEX/Melee based healer, uses a throwing weapon for DPS, dances for healing/buffs.

None of that's going to happen though, but I can dream~

[Rhaja]

Blue Mage - Counter-based tank, INT as main stat so uses Casters gear, Clerics Stance style skill to allow such gear to be used for tanking.

I'm going to go ahead and say keep them with the current tank stat's; VIT and STR. SE seems to be heavy on not having roles clashing over gear and keeping everything simple and uniformed. Having BLU more into VIT also makes sense in that they have to survive the attack before hand, which leads me to think that a BLU tank will be counter heavy, have the same HP pool as WAR or more, and matching WAR for it's brutality in combat.