SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[ShinMetsu]

I feel like i'm starting to see a trend here, People that generally appear to be playing tank want SAM as a tank, people that generally appear to be playing DPS want SAM as a DPS
And healers want SAM as a Hybrid

[Xlantaa]

Viking is very similar to a barbarian/berserk, and we already have one, the Warrior. Also, you think that Viking will be more interesting than Samurai to balance the DF queues in case of Viking tank and Samurai DPS? Only people who played FFIII know this class, and it i basically a berserk. Like I said few post ago, what class can compite with Samurai in popularity to balance the DF in the first days of launch? Dark Knigh on 3.0 was massively popular to the point that on first weeks the DPS got insta queues while tanks got a normal queues and sometimes long queues.

I feel like i'm starting to see a trend here, People that generally appear to be playing tank want SAM as a tank, people that generally appear to be playing DPS want SAM as a DPS
And healers want SAM as a Hybrid

Exactly, I said that several post ago. It is undestanblade. But still, I don't like one of the excuses for not being tnk. "We have already 2 sword wielding tanks" And? The game shuld be balanced in gameplay and jobs, but nothing about what weapon should have.

[EdwinLi]

Like I said few post ago, what class can compite with Samurai in popularity to balance the DF in the first days of launch? Dark Knigh on 3.0 was massively popular to the point that on first weeks the DPS got insta queues while tanks got a normal queues and sometimes long queues.
.

You do know 1 week is a very short life span compared to the entire life of this MMO. For a Tank to be successful they must last longer than 1 week or 1 month but to the point that tank player base actually increase enough to have a noticable effect beyond 3 months and the Player actually contine to player that tank Job for max level content and endgame.

The 1 week popularity was not actually popularity but a large amount of people were more curious and test out Dark Knight to see what it can do and what does it offer. However once they hit lvl 60 their loyality to the Tank Role was tested as that is when they must either accept the large negative amount of responsibility as a Tank or abandon Dark knight for a DPS or Healer Job.

Also how you are picturing what a Viking Tank may be like is being based on what you know about it from its past role in FF games. What Viking Job ends up as in FF14 can be completely different from Warrior since FF14 gameplay is different from FF3 gameplay which means they can start introducing new mechanics unique to FF14 version of the Jobs and even completely new gameplay.

[Shippuu]

Also how you are picturing what a Viking Tank may be like is being based on what you know about it from its past role in FF games. What Viking Job ends up as in FF14 can be completely different from Warrior since FF14 gameplay is different from FF3 gameplay which means they can start introducing new mechanics unique to FF14 version of the Jobs and even completely new gameplay.

I'm not even talking about potential abilities or play styles they can use all kinds of things regardless of the outward shell (viking, samurai whatever.)

I'm talking about the overall visual aesthetic. How is a viking stylistically different from a warrior? It isn't, warrior covers both the viking and berserker aesthetics, even if you give them a warhammer which isn't any different than a great axe except for the damage type.

Why would they give us a job that looks exactly like warrior over something that has a unique and iconic appearance that is vastly more popular.

[Kyuuen]

I'm not even talking about potential abilities or play styles they can use all kinds of things regardless of the outward shell (viking, samurai whatever.)

I'm talking about the overall visual aesthetic. How is a viking stylistically different from a warrior? It isn't, warrior covers both the viking and berserker aesthetics, even if you give them a warhammer which isn't any different than a great axe except for the damage type.

Why would they give us a job that looks exactly like warrior over something that has a unique and iconic appearance that is vastly more popular.

The reverse of that can be equally true though. What is Sam as a tank? Two handed sword wielder that parry's attacks. Sounds exactly like Warrior AND Dark Knight. Which is why I like the idea of Sam being a DPS as we have nothing; in melee, that is two handed as DPS... beside Dragoon.

[DWolfwood]

You do know 1 week is a very short life span compared to the entire life of this MMO.

Anyone who actually believes the effect to only go this far is seriously deluding themselves. There are still people playing the tank role now for the first time, trying out endgame and wanting to stick with it simply because they wanted to be a Dark Knight. There are still people leveling it for this reason as well. Every time we see a "DRK new to tanking, looking for advice" thread, we're seeing the effect it had in creating more tanks for the endgame community. Every person new to MMOs is going to feel the enticement of playing DRK, and consequently tanking because of it. It never goes away.

The reverse of that can be equally true though. What is Sam as a tank? Two handed sword wielder that parry's attacks. Sounds exactly like Warrior AND Dark Knight. Which is why I like the idea of Sam being a DPS as we have nothing; in melee, that is two handed as DPS... beside Dragoon.

This point is moot because, when we play the game of flipping the argument, we see that DPS already has an eastern job that wields katanas. You might argue that "those katanas aren't the same," and you're correct. Just like a katana is not the same thing as a battleaxe nor greatsword.

[Kyuuen]

This point is moot because, when we play the game of flipping the argument, we see that DPS already has an eastern job that wields katanas. You might argue that "those katanas aren't the same," and you're correct. Just like a katana is not the same thing as a battleaxe nor greatsword.

The rest of the underlying point is that both Warrior and Dark Knight are both two handed, parry based tanks. Sam is a two handed class that would be parry based if included as a Tank.

[Shippuu]

The rest of the underlying point is that both Warrior and Dark Knight are both two handed, parry based tanks. Sam is a two handed class that would be parry based if included as a Tank.

That's such a bunk argument though and you know it. That's like saying adding another DPS that has a DoT shouldn't happen because other DPS utilize DoTs. Or a DPS that has to manage a buff timer (DRG, MNK, NIN, BRD, MCH, BLM). Warrior and Dark Knight have 1 (ONE) defensive cooldown that effects their parry, that hardly makes them parry tanks, especially when they have more defensive cooldowns that just increase their mitigation (That's like saying you can't add a tank that mitigates magic damage because DRK has 1 cooldown that increases their magic resistance.) And even then, so what if it's parry based? Where's some magical rule that says only X number of tanks can utilize parry as a defensive property? Again that's like saying adding a new DPS job can't have any DoTs, no buffs, or no positionals etc. etc. etc.

[ADVSS]

just wanna slice the enemy in half, not smack it with the side of the sword to make it "madder" at me than the rest of my party....and yeah parry is a tanking stat, theyre gonna rework it at some point sooner or later, could see sam using it more often for procs like reprisal or shield swipe works, but maybe more different ones, like a stun or silence, or bleeding damage, maybe some damage reflect, that really isnt far fetched to believe at all. As to how it works or is well designed to work, i guess is the big issue. Id hate to see it get 1 parry buff like drk and have them call it a parry/evasion tank, or 1 mdef up cd and call it a magic based tank, Im just concerned about how they design its gameplay

[Kyuuen]

That's such a bunk argument though and you know it. That's like saying adding another DPS that has a DoT shouldn't happen because other DPS utilize DoTs. Or a DPS that has to manage a buff timer (DRG, MNK, NIN, BRD, MCH, BLM). Warrior and Dark Knight have 1 (ONE) defensive cooldown that effects their parry, that hardly makes them parry tanks, especially when they have more defensive cooldowns that just increase their mitigation (That's like saying you can't add a tank that mitigates magic damage because DRK has 1 cooldown that increases their magic resistance.) And even then, so what if it's parry based? Where's some magical rule that says only X number of tanks can utilize parry as a defensive property? Again that's like saying adding a new DPS job can't have any DoTs, no buffs, or no positionals etc. etc. etc.

You're absolutely right.. if we existed in a world in which people wouldn't complain about it. We're talking about a community that complained about Grass ffs. Or were you not here for that particular insanity? Of course it's an issue, if they keep throwing one design out there someone is bound to call them out for it. Which is why another parry based tank would be a poor decision after having just put one out.

First of all, a samurai tank doesn't have to use a 2handed sword, it could also use dual katanas wielded upright. Even if it is a 2h katana wielder, saying that tanks that use parry is redundant is just about the silliest argument you can come up with. You're basically saying that because three jobs try to deflect an incoming attack that all of a sudden this means no jobs in the future can utilize this... What? It's a stat on tank gear for a reason, and surprise surprise, it's not just tanks that can parry. Any tank that is implemented is going to be able to parry. It's what you do want to do when an attack comes at you, which is kind of the point of tanking.

To the Italics See above reply.

To the Bold There's three types of tanks in the world. The third being a bit questionable due to luck and game balance. Block types (shield bearers and magic types)- that utilize a shields, magics, parry, and evasion to mitigate. PARRY (two handed weapon users, dual wielders, and magic users) types, which can't block and can only utilize parry, magics, or evasion and tend to have higher HP, so sponges can be lumped in with parry types. Evasion based, self explanatory. Can parry, maybe magics, but main focus is evasion. Hard to pull off because if you evade, you take no damage.. and a tank that takes no damage is a god and screws others tanks over. My overall point to all this explaining... see above reply to Shippuu.

That is only unfounded conjecture atm, assuming it was parry based is just something the player base has decided. The development team knows what parameters will be in future content, the overall structure of encounters that we will not know until release and even then after watching some one else's play through. If we had the actual know how we would be making the games, not discussing the viability of The Only Classic Far Eastern Armored FF Series class/ job That makes sense as opposed to reworking other iconic FF mainstays in to roles they never meant to fit in.

If it's iconic Sam, it's not conjecture. If it does not use a shield, there is no chance of block. A block with a weapon is a parry. Therefore it would be a Parry based tank. Unless they try to design Sam as evasion based... which would be real weird.