SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

[Krissey]

How does this guy not know about Log Horizon?

Also, the movie, the Seven Samurai, is only one of the most respected and legendary films by Japan's arguably most famous and respected film director, Akira Kurosawa. Kind of a big deal.

This argument about SAM being DPS based on all this is really silly. You seriously make a better argument just saying that you don't want it to be a tank because you don't want to tank. Wanting a job to be a DPS is a completely legitimate reason enough on its own, but making these ridiculous arguments leaves you with no ground to stand on.

I actually don't have a preference. I tank, dps, and heal. I don't care. However what's silly is to argue that in all the various forms of media we have - that Samurai are depicted as these tanks taking massive punishment in heavy duty armor and defending their allies instead of fast, zippy, streamlined killers with lightning fast attacks and blinding speeds - cutting hairs in two mid air, etc...

So what does the general media portrayal convey to you - that of a DPS or a tank? Apparently it says to some people tank. To me it says DPS. I'm fine either way. I played both protect and fury warrior in WoW. I played both Retribution and Protection paladin in WoW. I played both Frost and Blood and Unholy Death Knight in WoW. I play every spec, I raid with every spec, I like every job/class. I literally don't care. I'm just saying they're usually zippy fast little buggers that kill people efficiently and cut down swathes of bad guys in a single blow.

Hell - Blade & Soul has both. Blade Masters are Tanks/DPS and Lynn Blade Dancers are purely DPS. Both use swords. One is the zippy fast killer, one is the parry/block master that...also has zippy fast killing moves. Either way works. But if you could only choose one I'd say Samurai are depicted more as damage dealers than damage soakers.

Also I've "heard of" Log Horizon but I don't obsessively watch every anime that ever comes out. I've also heard of Naruto but I've never seen an episode. I have many anime - but I don't watch anime just for the sake of watching anime.

[Souleater13]

Samurai will be tank or dps that we know. What about how it plays, shouldn't that be more concerning then the role? If samurai was dps I think it would allow SE to be more innovative in making another melee dps. (if they take the opportunity). If they draw ideas from the samurai in tactics and the tp techs from cyan in ff6 add "new mechanics" to differentiate itself from the other melee I think it could be interesting to play. Have it be fun to play and who cares if "samurai class attacks monster from the behind".

[DWolfwood]

So what does the general media portrayal convey to you - that of a DPS or a tank?

I started this thread with the request that SAM be both Tank and DPS, so I think it's clear that I believe it can be both nearly equally. That said, I think it would be a horrible waste of a opportunity to not make it a tank because there simply aren't that many great tank ideas out there.

A few in this thread keep saying they want a RDM/BLU tank, but to me, they should just focus on giving PLD and DRK more magic. PLD already has Stoneskin, Cure, Raise, and Protect, so why not work with that. Their Clemency should also be built upon. DRK's main focus is MP management to sustain darkside and use dark magic, aka dark arts. With this into account, I think they should make PLD and DRK more distinct rather than keep them the same to give us yet another tank that uses magic and swords. Where is the Eastern job option? DPS already has 2 if people wanna talk about having too many of one type, and one even uses Katanas. I realize people just want another 2h job like Dragoon and a sword job, but if that's literally just the case, then there are definitely other options. My own being that we get 2 "Samurai" jobs, Shogun and Ronin, but they could also get a BLU/RDM DPS along with something like a Berserkr 2h Hammer DPS, and those are just the easy options. SE could definitely make something up for players if they want it bad enough and these 2 don't cut it for them. - Pun not intended, but I'll take it.

As for the "too many" melee tanks argument, I really don't have much to say to this. I'd like to see a BST tank since we don't have a true pet-class tank, but I also don't really see how it would work out. DNC is more of a support job in my opinion and should fill the much needed melee-support gap right now. Both of these jobs are melee btw, so the only options left are a Ranger tank, going into obscure jobs, or creating something entirely new. All of which I don't think should happen in the next expansion just yet.

So again, I simply see too many great ideas for SAM to be a tank and be a great one, that I just see it as a wasted opportunity otherwise. You got things like a slice-through plunge attack, abilities that focus on SAM's countering/parry ability, and then you got stuff like this gear:


Literally perfect on SAM.

Also I've "heard of" Log Horizon but I don't obsessively watch every anime that ever comes out. I've also heard of Naruto but I've never seen an episode. I have many anime - but I don't watch anime just for the sake of watching anime.

You should definitely watch it considering you play an MMO. It's easily better than both .hack and Sword Art Online imo, the both of which are just a little bit too cash-cow and aimed at a younger audience for my liking. It's a really good show, though season 2 does take a little longer to get going.

Samurai will be tank or dps that we know. What about how it plays, shouldn't that be more concerning then the role? If samurai was dps I think it would allow SE to be more innovative in making another melee dps. (if they take the opportunity). If they draw ideas from the samurai in tactics and the tp techs from cyan in ff6 add "new mechanics" to differentiate itself from the other melee I think it could be interesting to play. Have it be fun to play and who cares if "samurai class attacks monster from the behind".

I agree on this. The way they make the job interesting is what matters most. I can easily see it using quite a lot of unique and new takes on Tank abilities considering I've been tanking for a very long time.

As for DPS, I honestly think the 3 melee currently don't have as much differentiation as we'd like to think. Greased Lightning/Huton/Blood of the Dragon are all buffs you gotta keep up, and there are DoTs you gotta maintain, along with positionals. Chakras, Jumps, and Ninjutsu are definitely interesting aspects, but Chakras aren't really a considerable chunk of MNK dps, Jumps are little more than OGCDs, which leaves Ninjutsu as the most unique element that melee have going for them currently.

They could definitely create something new, but I've no amazing ideas to contribute at the moment. Maybe something to do with charging up, like Cyan in FF6. Idk. FFXI's SAM can't really be used as a direct inspiration because pretty much every melee has what SAM brought to the table in XI. Skillchains basically got turned into combos and Dragoon (and every DPS) already have Invigorate, which is what Meditate was.