New Prelim Tank updates

[Phoenicia]

Eh? To all the posters that keep missing the point where it flies way over their heads. I'm not "bragging" about WAR superiority in every situation just for brag rights.. I don't even WAR. I am just pointing out where the REAL problem lies. People are stupidly approaching this wrong.

You see? The thing is, ANY nerf to WAR's defensive capability will lower its intended role of "tank" and enforces its ALREADY GODDAMN SOLIDIFIED position of OT. You solve nothing when parties are down to "secure a WAR and get any other tank". They don't care who MTs as long as they have a WAR in party.

From the same perspective: Any "buff" to PLD and/or DRK MT potential does NOTHING to the real problem of EVERYONE and their dog wanting a WAR OT in raid and only serves to pigeonhole them into the MT spot and drive people away from PLD+DRK groups.

So, WAR is sitting as king in the OT spot while people will just look for any tank to MT. Yes, including another WAR. This is how badly WAR is pigeonholed into the OT spot. PLD and DRK are just.... "not good enough OT".

Now let's be stupid like most of the hive mind and call for nerfs to the following:

DRK MT DPS and aggro. Move CnS to GCD and have it interrupt combos. Reduce potency of Salted Earth because it's AoE and change Dark Mind and Dark Dance to 90s CD.
PLD defense.. Because I want it so. Make HG a 15 minute CD. Reduce Sentinel to 30% so it's in line with Vengeance and Shadow Wall, it's only fair, right?
Reduce Fell Cleave to 400 potency. Remove the 5% bonus damage from deliverance, access to FC is enough.

Now WAR is no longer the best OT, DRK and PLD are no longer the best MTs. We can use whatever we want! Be happy! I mean everything is balanced and is equal.....ly bad!

Solution to such a dilemma? It's really simple:

1- Make people EQUALLY want a WAR, PLD or DRK MT. Base it entirely on party setup. Just like how a double caster group would rather have a bard over MCH and a DRG +MCH group would want to get more physical (dropping a caster) DPS.

2- Make People EQUALLY want a WAR, PLD or DRK OT. Base it entirely on party setup. Give DRK and PLD OT tools that allows for higher raid performance.

How can the above happen? Simple, don't make PLD and DRK such sucky OTs. That's all there is to it. Fix DRK and PLD OT TP issues. Give DRK and PLD "uses" for their niches when they're OT. A couple of examples that may be good ideas or not: Have Cover work on magic and reduce its CD to 90s. Now PLD can use its Shield from the OT spot. Give DRK a party buff that procs its parry abilities when the other tank blocks/parries.

Part of WAR's "amazing" OT capabilities is its access to its abilities from the OT spot. A lot of WAR's abilities have dual nature (giving both offensive and defensive uses). Also there is NONE of the WAR's abilities that can only function from the MT spot (outside of the 50 potency counter on vengeance) as opposed to PLD/DRK abilities sitting off-CD as long as they're not tanking such as: Shield Swipe, Reprisal, all the defensive CDs and Blood Price.

???

It's 300 potency, it's not 400 - 25% via Defiance, therefore ignores Defiance and deals 400 Potency. It's 300 Potency bypassing Defiance.

Yes, 300 "bypassing Defiance" is 400 when streamlined and compared to the general potency of all WAR's attacks under Defiance.

Here is a short lesson in math:

WAR turns on Defiance: WAR does 25% less overall damage.

WAR hits Butcher Block under Defiance: 280 potency affected by defiance.

WAR hits Inner Beast under Defiance: 300 potency that ignores defiance.

Now Inner Beast compared to Butcher Block is 300 x 1.33 = 300 / 0.75 = 400.

This is exactly like saying DRK deals 400 potency with DA+ Souleater.

If you wanna talk "pure value" DRK deals 400 x 0.8 x 1.15 = 368. And WAR deals 300 x 1.20 = 360. But again, streamlining potencies under tank stances, IB is 400 potency.

( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ

That's the thing though. It really brings up how "bad people are at processing data". I started putting the main point in italics, bold, underline and colored and it still seems to go over their heads. lol. Then they have the audacity to call anyone who disagrees with them "nerds" in a way to insult them.

[Shurrikhan]

1- Make people EQUALLY want a WAR, PLD or DRK MT. Base it entirely on party setup. Just like how a double caster group would rather have a bard over MCH and a DRG +MCH group would want to get more physical (dropping a caster) DPS.

2- Make People EQUALLY want a WAR, PLD or DRK OT. Base it entirely on party setup. Give DRK and PLD OT tools that allows for higher raid performance.

How can the above happen? Simple, don't make PLD and DRK such sucky OTs. That's all there is to it. Fix DRK and PLD OT TP issues. Give DRK and PLD "uses" for their niches when they're OT. A couple of examples that may be good ideas or not: Have Cover work on magic and reduce its CD to 90s. Now PLD can use its Shield from the OT spot. Give DRK a party buff that procs its parry abilities when the other tank blocks/parries.

This.
.....

[Rei_Fails]

Here is a short lesson in math:

When you talk down like this, you should deliver something cohesive. Inner Beast is 300 Flat potency, nothing more, nothing less.

Butcher's is 280 with no stance, 280 with unchained. 210 in Defiance. Now we'll add maim, 252.
IB is 300. Unchained, Defiance, irrelevant. Add maim, 360. How is this rounding up to 400?

[Reynhart]

When you talk down like this, you should deliver something cohesive.

It comes down to how people calculate the overall potency of WAR's rotation.
To sum up, they add everything and then apply all the damage modifiers, including the Defiance penalty.
Problem is, since Inner Beast ignores this, you have to bump its potency to "compensate"
So, for a BB combo followed by IB, you'd end up with : (150+200+280+400)*0.75 which is the same as (150+200+280)*0.75+300.

It's a little counterintuitive, but is makes all calculations easier.

As for how potency work, yes, it's linear. A 200 potency skill literally does twice the damage a 100 potency skill does.

[Rei_Fails]

It's a little counterintuitive, but is makes all calculations easier.

Right right, I see what he's doing now, thank you. Still,

Vengeance + IB is 46% + 400 potency heal

This was the original comment, not sure where the BB potency came into the equation, it's certainly not a 400 pot heal. (and was ignoring maim). Even if you increase it by a presumed 25% existing reduction for sake of easier calculations, it's still not 400 potency when determining the heal value.

[Reynhart]

This was the original comment, not sure where the BB potency came into the equation, it's certainly not a 400 pot heal. (and was ignoring maim).

It's a 400 potency damage move (Before Defiance penalty) that heals you for the damage amount.

The formula for heal is probably different so it may not really be a "400 potency heal", but you get the idea. And yes, he took a "basic" Inner Beast, withtout maim or slashing debuff.