New Prelim Tank updates

[Phoenicia]

There's a lot of extra stuff WAR has because it's the self heal tank and PLD/DRK are just... tanks. I dunno, just seems weird to me.

Even weirder when you consider that PLD is the only tank required to be educated in healing magic.

You guys are forgetting that WAR receives less healing from both magic and abilities than the other two tanks. WAR has extra mitigation and self healing but it's countered by lower effective healing received compared to the other two. Not arguing WAR's superiority, btw. It is in the clear that whatever WAR has makes it stronger than the other two despite that simple fact. Specially if you pile up all the "little things".

[Instrumentality]

As for the DPS not doing the same numbers, that is because, as long as it's reasonably, no matter the setup: You end up with the same raid DPS. Example: NIN does less damage than MNK, but it adds enough DPS to tanks and MNK (and everyone else) that it makes up for its inherently lower DPS. Another example: BRD and SMN do less DPS than BLM, but they have higher up time than BLM where BLM drops DPS as it move while SMN and BRD have DoTs ticking and instants to use while moving.

This is a pretty good example for dps, and I agree with it. It doesn't translate at all to tanks, though, because in this example Warrior would have the highest uptime, the best dps, the most utility, and the most diverse and usable mitigation toolkit. Bringing a warrior to a raid has no downside. You don't 'trade away' anything for it because it is quite simply much better than anything else you could put in that slot because it is the best at the four things I just listed.

And buffing the other tanks to match it will never happen because it doesn't seem like SE understands where the fundamental breakdown is between Warrior and not-Warrior tanks. In that the only way to make other tanks competitive with Warrior is to make them much better at at least one of the above four things.

[Reynhart]

WAR has extra mitigation and self healing but it's countered by lower effective healing received compared to the other two.

Having so much healing tied to attack power is maybe a little overkill to compensate for those few lost percentage.

I think this word defines WAR's toolkit pretty wel..."overdo"
WAR has no mitigation whatsoever in 2.0 ? Let's put mitigation pretty much everywhere.
WAR is healed for less in regards to eHP ? Let's give him the ability to heal to full, by itself, in 5 seconds.

I'm pretty sure there's a middle ground somewhere.

In that the only way to make other tanks competitive with Warrior is to make them much better at at least one of the above four things.

There's still a flaw in that, and it's the most diverse and usable mitigation toolkit part. If the "VIT vs STR debate" taught us one thing, it's that you can have too much mitigation. So, even if PLD was miles above WAR, as long as WAR has enough mitigation, then WAR is better...as long as the gap in mitigation doesn't change the backup they need.

So, surviving is out of the equation.

[Khalithar]

Wanna know why its a common idea? It's better to nerf one thing than power creep everything else.

This is very true. A lot of MMO devs tend to operate by this idea, that it is better and easier to nerf the outlier than start buffing everyone else. I'm inclined to agree, it's generally been more effective. No one likes to be nerfed, but at the same time I understand that it's better for the game balance to do things this way.

[Instrumentality]

There's still a flaw in that, and it's the most diverse and usable mitigation toolkit part. If the "VIT vs STR debate" taught us one thing, it's that you can have too much mitigation. So, even if PLD is miles above WAR, as long as WAR has enough mitigation, then WAR is better...as long as the gap in mitigation doesn't change the backup they need.

So, surviving is out of the equation.

Warrior is better at mitigating all types of damage than Paladin is.

[Reynhart]

Warrior is better at mitigating all types of damage than Paladin is.

It was supposed to be a "what if".
Fixed.

[Instrumentality]

It was supposed to be a "what if".
Fixed.

Ah, okay. Yes, I don't know exactly how that would work, other than allowing healers much more dps time than other tanks would, but that would only be in the MT role. OT wise Warrior would still simply be better.