New Prelim Tank updates

[Brannigan]

They probably should have made Clemency also not interrupt combos.

[Donaria]

Some of these discussions are funny, entertaining at least.

[Fernosaur]

Balancing a game downwards is... is not cool. You want to give your players something endearing, something strong, regardless of what they want to play. Specially since this isn't a purely PvP game (in which case, the nerf already happened with Astrologians' immensely powerful Nocturnal Field), the fact that a job is too good affects game balance in a different way than in a competitive game. Instead of nerfing something, in this case, you have to bring the other options up. They haven't really brought DRK and PLD to that point yet, but at least the fixes to PLD are a step in the right direction. Better raid synergy for both classes would definitely be a boon to actually balance the field on what you should be bringing to your party.

Also, this doesn't really affect casual playstyles, sooo...

[Fyce]

This "problem" can be easily solved by fights mechanics. Forced tank swaps or stuff like T11 are prime examples. Even A1S during progression (when people stuggled to even put the boss at 60% before split).

Sure, the tank overall balance is messed up, but I think the main issue is that SE forgot the reason why we have 2 tanks in raid.
It's not really the tank balance which is at fault, it's that SE made fights where the OT really doesn't have much to do in terms of "tanking" aside from taking an add from time to time and a few soaking mechanics.

[Syzygian]

This "problem" can be easily solved by fights mechanics. Forced tank swaps or stuff like T11 are prime examples. Even A1S during progression (when people stuggled to even put the boss at 60% before split).

Sure, the tank overall balance is messed up, but I think the main issue is that SE forgot the reason why we have 2 tanks in raid.
It's not really the tank balance which is at fault, it's that SE made fights where the OT really doesn't have much to do in terms of "tanking" aside from taking an add from time to time and a few soaking mechanics.

No this should not be a thing. No job's blatant flaws should be band-aided over by content propping them up. Don't you remember how much shit DRK got for that these past two patches?

[Fyce]

No this should not be a thing. No job's blatant flaws should be band-aided over by content propping them up. Don't you remember how much shit DRK got for that these past two patches?

But, you cannot say that the DPS race and the concern with tank numbers only comes from the job balance. This wouldn't even be a thing if the DPS checks of Gordias weren't so high, or if you couldn't completly cheese a fight by brute-forcing it (A1S and Thordan). The tanking meta is strongly affected by the lastest raid tier available.

Besides, I don't see why it's a bad thing that some Tank jobs shines in certain ways. I mean, it's not because all three tanks shares the "tank role" that they absolutly must have the exact same amount of group utility and effectiveness in MT/OT places. This is absolutly not the case within DPS jobs and even less for healers...
... So why are the expectations so different with tanks?

[Reynhart]

... So why are the expectations so different with tanks?

Because, with the current raid, there is only one meaningful way.

The sad part is that, in the end, you always win by killing the boss. So, Gordias only made people realize what was already there, and what will probably always be. Even if Midas DPS check aren't as severe, people will want the most DPS they can...unless you make DPS numbers irrelevant, for example, by timing the phases (Hello, long wait for Twintania to come back) without allowing skips. Another option could be something like Moogle Mog, where you don't care how much damage the tanks do to the boss.

DPS aren't all at the same numbers, but they tend be balanced around their utility. With the same skilled players and the same gear, you could take probably any reasonable setup and achieve the same raid DPS ("Reasonable" meaning no 4 BRD parties )

[Shurrikhan]

This "problem" can be easily solved by fights mechanics. Forced tank swaps or stuff like T11 are prime examples. Even A1S during progression (when people stuggled to even put the boss at 60% before split).

Sure, the tank overall balance is messed up, but I think the main issue is that SE forgot the reason why we have 2 tanks in raid.
It's not really the tank balance which is at fault, it's that SE made fights where the OT really doesn't have much to do in terms of "tanking" aside from taking an add from time to time and a few soaking mechanics.

When the OT forgets that his defensive CDs exist (especially when a non-Warrior) and lets the healers deal with the MT's only remaining, inferior CD for a tankbuster that the OT could have taken with Sentinel, etc., that's just as much the players' fault as the design. If anything, hard-swap mechanics are what reinforce certain flaws in DRK and PLD designs, by not allowing them to trade in and out (respectively) according to their CDs, utility (Reprisal), and mitigation shortcomings (PLD vs. magic).

I'd have to say the tank stat changes have done more to encourage swapping in a way that's beneficial for class balance than hard swaps ever could, by simply removing the eHP difference between MTs and OTs.

[FallenWings]

I find it strange when people call for Nerfs(or Buffs) to a class without providing an example of how they would logically change it in the context of everything.

But I'm curious; what do you propose and why?

[Rei_Fails]

Yeah I get what he's doing now, thanks.