New Prelim Tank updates

[Phoenicia]

Happy for loltron and 20 potency increase in mah rotations.

^^^ No offence though.

Doesn't matter. Even if PLD was buffed to do 5k DPS and take 0 damage, literally. DRK gets knocked out, and WAR will be brought in just so PLD cab do 5.5k instead.

Also Sheltron isn't "so great" and in your T13 example, for every "proper rotated CD" the PLD uses, WAR can throw a "better option". Also Sheltron only "forces" a block, something that could happen without Sheltron. And it would only block Flatten. WAR can get the random parry (no matter how low the chance is) for even more mitigation than PLD's options. Also for every 2 Sheltrons, WAR can heal for way more than whatever damage 2 Sheltrons block with Equilibrium. Stop getting blinded by fat numbers.

Compare the following effects vs frequency:

IB > Ramps. But IB heals 400 potency. IB can happen 5.5 times every 1 ramps CD. 5.5 x 6 = 33s. ~40% uptime and 5.5x 400 potency healing = 2200 potency total.

ToB + Conv. < Ramps. ~17% vs 20% DR and 120s vs 90s. Also let's not forget that ToB is a direct 20% effective HP increase REGARDLESS of current HP, so if PLD is at 80% or less HP it Ramps is weaker than ToB. Also, combine it with IB so ToB + Conv + IB >>>>>>>>> Ramps.

Vengeance vs Sentinel? Yes, 30% vs 40%. But 120s vs 180s CD and 15s vs 10s duration. Again, combine IB + Veng >>>>>>>>> Sentinel because 400 heal + 46% mitigation + counter + 15s duration + 33% shorter CD vs 40% and 10s over 3 minutes.

RI vs lolwark. Reliability vs Magnitude chance. 90s vs 180s CD. 20s vs 15s duration. Obvious here. I don't care if you block 50% if Flatten is gonna rearrange your face because RNG decided to block the auto before and after but not the buster.

Holmgang vs HG. Yeah, HG is immunity, Holm is immortality. But for every HG, 3 holmgangs can be used, that's 3 mechanics cheased instead of one, considering the above structure? WAR needs to cheese less.


Now an example T13 rotation:

Sentinel vs IB + Veng.

Rampart vs IB + ToB.

PLD is forced to HG somewhere, WAR lols and IB+ToB.

PLD is back to Sentinel, WAR IB + Veng.

PLD ramps vs WAR IB + ToB.

In a 5 Flatten push during the first two phases PLD eats 7 flare breaths unmitigated that WAR scoffs off with IB with 2 Unchained uses.

PLD eats first Akh Morn without CD because ramps/sent. were used on Twintania, WAR IB's and ToB because it can and lols.

Double WAR combinations just IB + ToB or Veng. alternatively on all Akh Morns, they don't even need to HG. WAR will also use 2 Unchained CDs during the last phase if they carry over their stacks after Twin dies.

Double PLD set up goes into CD headaches.

All the while WAR MT does twice the DPS of loladin MT.

Regardless of who is better at what:

The problem still stands, No one would consider the DRK/PLD combination. WAR sits on the OT spot with a crown and a feather on its head while laughing at the other two tanks Pickering at each other for the MT spot, which WAR could easily push them aside and "show them how it's done" because it can also do it better.

There, I bold'd, italic'd, and underlined it and even colored it red in case you missed it.

[Reynhart]

^^^ No offence though.

None taken.
Except there a tiny itsy bitsy miscalculation on your part. Goring was buffed by a 100 potency when you include DoT.
It's now the highest potency WS, above Chaos Thrust. And I'll wait to see how much more RA does the enmity boost on Savage Blade allows.

I don't need more math on how WAR is a beast even when considering pure mitigation. I don't need more math on how WAR is a beast when considering DPS. I know both of that.
But, using its mitigation means not using its full DPS potency. Replacing a Fell Cleave by an Inner Beast is a huge drop.

The T13 example is not really accurate to compare current jobs, as Sheltron wasn't available. If it were, you'd have to add Sheltron to each Flatten. And since it's perfectly doable to survive a Flatten with only Rampart and without a block, Sheltron could free the PLD from using HG.

No one would consider the DRK/PLD combination. WAR sits on the OT spot with a crown and a feather on its head while laughing at the other two tanks Pickering at each other for the MT spot, which WAR could easily push them aside and "show them how it's done" because it can also do it better.

I wasn't talking about WAR as an OT. I was just commenting on what SpookyGhost thinks of fight that would favors WAR as an MT.

I think WAR can potentially see use as MT in any fights where there's excess cleaves, as where a tank swap might be needed for PLD/DRK a WAR could just keep IBing.

Were I to build a party for that fight, I'd still take a PLD as MT and WAR as OT, unless all those cleaves are magical.

[Starbirth]

I think everyone gets in some way Warrior is the best of the three tanks at the moment and because of Warriors godly status they are the poster boy of the "working as intended" excuse when the truth is they don't want to nerf Warrior because SE lacks the balls to piss off the nerds that play the class. Warrior should have been nerfed and PLD only needed a buff in the utility department.

[Rei_Fails]

+ 400 potency heal). Note: I didn't fat finger that, IB ignores defiance penalty, so 300/75% = 400

???

It's 300 potency, it's not 400 - 25% via Defiance, therefore ignores Defiance and deals 400 Potency. It's 300 Potency bypassing Defiance.

[Syzygian]

I think everyone gets in some way Warrior is the best of the three tanks at the moment and because of Warriors godly status they are the poster boy of the "working as intended" excuse when the truth is they don't want to nerf Warrior because SE lacks the balls to piss off the nerds that play the class. Warrior should have been nerfed and PLD only needed a buff in the utility department.

I rather liked that they implied Fell Cleave was the most nerf-worthy thing about WAR. That made me chuckle.

[SpookyGhost]

when the truth is they don't want to nerf Warrior because SE lacks the balls to piss off the nerds that play the class.

Main Class
Gladiator Lv 60

Ah. I see.

[Lambdafish]

Ah. I see.

Main Class
Marauder Lv 60

Not getting involved (even though SE stated that they don't like nerfing in general because it upsets people, a.k.a they don't have the balls to nerf it after the NIN incident)

[Torunya]

Ah. I see.

Main Class
Marauder Lv 60

Seriously bro, better make sure you got your bases covered next time before taking a low blow.

[Donaria]

Some of these discussions are funny, entertaining at least.

[Starbirth]

I rather liked that they implied Fell Cleave was the most nerf-worthy thing about WAR. That made me chuckle.

Warrior can keep fell cleave and their dps but nerf its utility and defensive capabilities a bit.