Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Livaille]

Edit: 800 dps is only being carried if everyone else is doing significantly more then you. If everyone else is doing less then you are in fact carrying them with 800 dps.

No, that would mean that everyone is doing a bad job at dpsing.

Different people playing different classes, some with higher ilevels then others, all contributing. Just because someone is doing 100 less dps then everyone else doesn't mean they are getting carried.

Indeed, that depends of people's gear and job. You will obviously do a lot less dps as a 190 bard than the 210 Dragoon that's in your group.

Truly being carried is laying dead on the floor contributing nothing while everyone else clears the content.

I disagree. Doing 800 dps (as a melee dps for example) when everyone else is over 1100 is a carry in my book. Not as bad as laying dead on the ground of course, but still a carry.

"I like the idea of a professional troll though, makes me think of a hideous creature under a bridge handing out business cards."

So are you trolling this thread?

[Andrea]

So, you were pulling the figure out of thin air based on reddit posts? As my youngest son tells me "I believe everything I read on reddit 150%".

As an aside, I got my BA in biological statistics a long time ago, so I have an inkling of where most "statistics" come from when I see them.

"Try again?" ??? Are we in some kind of contest here? Really ???

He has a point tho, the majority of bots are BLM and the majority of Gil sellers that spam you are Male Hyur Gladiators.

[Kuwagami]

This ^ If 1,000 dps on Thordan Ex is considered good near the end then being able to do over 800 dps without buffs with only the 2.0 rotation seems pretty solid evidence the level 60 rotation is optional in level 60 dungeons.

please do not misinterpret my point.

My point is that I expect in df more that a half-assed weak dps rotation. If you can't even provide that then you go in my "to BL list" and that's it. (Or you actually need to learn, but that would be easy to spot)

800 is still not so good at i190. It's just the bare minimum I consider expectable from someone who is trying

[TheUltimateSeph]

No, that would mean that everyone is doing a bad job at dpsing.

Indeed, that depends of people's gear and job. You will obviously do a lot less dps as a 190 bard than the 210 Dragoon that's in your group.



I disagree. Doing 800 dps (as a melee dps for example) when everyone else is over 1100 is a carry in my book. Not as bad as laying dead on the ground of course, but still a carry.





So are you trolling this thread?

My signature has nothing to do with the threads I post in and if you are really going to pick at that now you really do have nothing left.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

My signature has nothing to do with the threads I post in and if you are really going to pick at that now you really do have nothing left.

^
My thoughts.
OTT: Maybe my expectations are too low, but so long as a dps is at least doing a decent 50's rotation while weaving in those ocd's I'm happy. More importantly, one more post closer to the goal of 200 pages.

[AnaviAnael]

Oh of this I am well aware. Ironically I still out dps most people in my groups when not bothering with BoD. Hell as an experiment one time I went into Void Ark as a Lancer and used nothing but Chaos Thrust on the last boss and I was still staying at about 6-5th place on the enmity list for my party. Our level 50 rotations are still viable means of good dps. Our level 60 rotations let us do more obviously. It's what each person considers "good" I guess.

Well...there is one small hole in this argument. Were the others in your party using enmity reduction moves? Seeing where you are on the hate list isn't a very good comparison for DPS for this reason. You need solid numbers.

[Fyce]

How would you feel if I as a healer just wanted to afk behind the tank and let my fairy heal? Obviously any sane person would have a problem with it.

I really wouldn't have a problem with it as long as your fairy didn't let us die.

Double standard.

If a DPS is underperforming, the whole team will stay in that dungeon for longer.
If a Healer is underperforming (and let the group die), the whole team will stay in that dungeon for longer. (Repairs are completly negligible.)

So, back to square one, the title of this thread.

[TheUltimateSeph]

Double standards.

If a DPS is underperforming, the whole team will stay in that dungeon for longer.
If a Healer is underperforming (and let the group die), the whole team will stay in that dungeon for longer. (Repairs are completly negligible.)

So, back to square one, the title of this thread.

I know this will piss people off but I am of a mind that as long as you are performing your role in the dungeon I don't really care how long it takes. If we take the full 90 minutes, fine. If I have to go before then I'll leave the duty. If a tank can keep enmity by only spamming flash go for it. I won't complain. Your job is to tank, not dps. If a healer can keep the party alive by being afk and letting their fairy heal us, go for it. Your job is to heal, not dps. If a dps can kill the enemies with their basic skill rotation go for it, I really don't care as long as it dies. Maybe my standards are low but you know what? I don't care. It's a game and I'm gonna play it and have fun regardless of how others choose to play. Anything above and beyond your required role in the party is awesome and will more then likely get you my comm but I'm not gonna expect it of anyone.

[Fyce]

If a dps can kill the enemies with their basic skill rotation go for it, I really don't care as long as it dies.

Oh, so that's why. I now understand all your posts and where you're coming from: like a lot of people, you don't understand what a DPS job is and what is their role. It's not that you have low standards, it's that you don't have any regarding that role.

Killing enemies -and thus making progress in a task by doing so- is not the job of the DPS, it's the one of the whole group itself. DPS are here to ensure that enemies are killed as fast as possible, and in a specific way/order if need be.
This is the "holy trinity" concept in its basic form: the tank keeps taking and mitigating the incoming damage in order to allow the DPS to kill the enemies as fast as possible, while the healer keeps the tank (and the DPS, but mostly the tank) alive.
If "killing things as fast as possible" wasn't the core role of DPS, then, by your logic, they would absolutly don't matter and you could in theory do dungeons with only a Healer and a Tank.

As I said, if a DPS is going too slow, then it makes the party lose time the same way a Healer not healing would, or a Tank not mitigating enough, ending up killing the party.


If you don't understand what is the true role of a DPS job, then you cannot understand why people in this thread are arguing with you against your view on the matter.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

.
This is the "holy trinity" concept in its basic form: the tank keeps taking and mitigating the incoming damage in order to allow the DPS to kill the enemies as fast as possible, while the healer keeps the tank (and the DPS, but mostly the tank) alive.

The problem here is that by design, DPS also have 0 responsibilities outside of cutting edge content. There's no DPS checks tight enough to actually necessitate high DPS, which is why it's very common to see people set up odd parties with one tank and 3 healers, 3 tanks and 1 healer, or even just 4 tanks precisely because DPS are largely irrelevant, even when dealing high damage due to how little time is actually saved by bringing along the 2 DPS.