Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Fyce]

If a dps can kill the enemies with their basic skill rotation go for it, I really don't care as long as it dies.

Oh, so that's why. I now understand all your posts and where you're coming from: like a lot of people, you don't understand what a DPS job is and what is their role. It's not that you have low standards, it's that you don't have any regarding that role.

Killing enemies -and thus making progress in a task by doing so- is not the job of the DPS, it's the one of the whole group itself. DPS are here to ensure that enemies are killed as fast as possible, and in a specific way/order if need be.
This is the "holy trinity" concept in its basic form: the tank keeps taking and mitigating the incoming damage in order to allow the DPS to kill the enemies as fast as possible, while the healer keeps the tank (and the DPS, but mostly the tank) alive.
If "killing things as fast as possible" wasn't the core role of DPS, then, by your logic, they would absolutly don't matter and you could in theory do dungeons with only a Healer and a Tank.

As I said, if a DPS is going too slow, then it makes the party lose time the same way a Healer not healing would, or a Tank not mitigating enough, ending up killing the party.


If you don't understand what is the true role of a DPS job, then you cannot understand why people in this thread are arguing with you against your view on the matter.

[TheUltimateSeph]

Oh, so that's why. I now understand all your posts and where you're coming from: like a lot of people, you don't understand what a DPS job is and what is their role. It's not that you have low standards, it's that you don't have any regarding that role.

Killing enemies -and thus making progress in a task by doing so- is not the job of the DPS, it's the one of the whole group itself. DPS are here to ensure that enemies are killed as fast as possible, and in a specific way/order if need be.
This is the "holy trinity" concept in its basic form: the tank keeps taking and mitigating the incoming damage in order to allow the DPS to kill the enemies as fast as possible, while the healer keeps the tank (and the DPS, but mostly the tank) alive.
If "killing things as fast as possible" wasn't the core role of DPS, then, by your logic, they would absolutly don't matter and you could in theory do dungeons with only a Healer and a Tank.

As I said, if a DPS is going too slow, then it makes the party lose time the same way a Healer not healing would, or a Tank not mitigating enough, ending up killing the party.


If you don't understand what is the true role of a DPS job, then you cannot understand why people in this thread are arguing with you against your view on the matter.

Actually right now I really don't understand you or people like you and I doubt I ever will. You quoted me, I clearly said if a dps can kill the enemies with their basic rotation go for it. How is this not understanding what a dps role is? They kill stuff, that's what I said. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. They are the main damage dealers in a dungeon. I really don't know where you got this "don't understand what a dps job is" bit from. It's cool though, I'm pretty much done with this thread anyway. But keep it up guys, reach that 200 page goal I believe in you.

The problem here is that by design, DPS also have 0 responsibilities outside of cutting edge content. There's no DPS checks tight enough to actually necessitate high DPS, which is why it's very common to see people set up odd parties with one tank and 3 healers, 3 tanks and 1 healer, or even just 4 tanks precisely because DPS are largely irrelevant, even when dealing high damage due to how little time is actually saved by bringing along the 2 DPS.

I could kiss you <3

[Archaell]

Actually right now I really don't understand you or people like you and I doubt I ever will. You quoted me, I clearly said if a dps can kill the enemies with their basic rotation go for it. How is this not understanding what a dps role is? They kill stuff, that's what I said. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. They are should be the main damage dealers in a dungeon. I really don't know where you got this "don't understand what a dps job is" bit from. It's cool though, I'm pretty much done with this thread anyway. But keep it up guys, reach that 200 page goal I believe in you.

Fixed that for you.

You would be surprised how often the tank or healer are the main damage source in DF runs.

[AnaviAnael]

Fixed that for you.

You would be surprised how often the tank or healer are the main damage source in DF runs.

I out DPSed a monk once on my AST! ... Ok, it was more than once. ; ;

[Kuwagami]

Actually right now I really don't understand you or people like you and I doubt I ever will. You quoted me, I clearly said if a dps can kill the enemies with their basic rotation go for it. How is this not understanding what a dps role is? They kill stuff, that's what I said. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. They are the main damage dealers in a dungeon. I really don't know where you got this "don't understand what a dps job is" bit from.

Well, you just once again showed that you don't understand what a dps job is. espeially with this :

I clearly said if a dps can kill the enemies with their basic rotation go for it. How is this not understanding what a dps role is?

If we are to go down to the basics of the trinity, all of the jobs can dps (damage per second). Tanks can, Healers can, and those that we call Damage Dealers obviously can.

Now then, what is the difference ?
Tanks have to focus on survivability and aggro. Dps comes after it (or with it in the case of FFxiv).
Healers have to focus on keeping everyone alive. Dps comes after it.

Damage Dealers have othing to focus on but doing damage. Therefore, their focus is to deal as many damage as they can as fast as possible. If a tank job is to lower incoming damage as much as possible, a DD job is to increase outgoing damage as much as possible.

If you prefer a better term, you might call them whatever pops in your mind when you picture a barbarian mowing down enemies. Personnaly, I used to call them "burners" back when I was learning the basics because they are indeed supposed to burn the enemy's HP bar.


Now that things are defined, onto the subject :

Your view of a dps is "killing stuff". Not quite. This is everyone's job as a group. A dps job is to do that as fast as possible. Thus, it is to use the maximum out of their skillset in order to minimize the time needed to kill everything in sight. By this fact, a mentality like :

If a dps can kill the enemies with their basic skill rotation go for it, I really don't care as long as it dies.

is NOT what a dps should strive for. If people don't want to put the effort to maximize their damage output, they might as well play tank or healer (note that it would drastically change the balance between jobs in DF content ).



Of course, this is only the theory. You can't expect anyone to go full throttle all of the time. That's fine. But even if not doing 100% everytime, doing your best should STILL be the #1 goal of any dps. This goes by researching what your optimal rotation is to maximze your damage output (by yourself or on the internet if you don't have the time to do the work by yourself (it takes a lot of time to pinpoint every little detail of a rotation), practicing said rotation to make it enter your muscle memory as you don't want to have to focus on what key to hit next in a duty, and then using this rotation everytime in duties to minimize the time spent on useless stuff like sluggishly and painfully moving through trash mobs.

Even if not perfect, it will still be more effective than AFKing half of your dungeon because you think 1-2-3 is enough because "heh, stuff dies, right ?"

Not to mention that it is a lot more satisfying to master your job and do your best at it than just not caring at all and do whatever because it is the bare minimum asked by the game.



TL;DR :
The Holy Trinity consists of 3 branches : Survive - Help - Kill. While the 2 first branches are no-brainers (but one could be surprised about how hard these concepts seem to be to some people), the last one isn't self-explanatory. Killing only isn't the real job you have to do, but rather you have to do it the fastest way possible. This is your responsibility as a damage dealer, and you have accepted it the moment you chose a job related to this role. If it doesn't suit your tastes, by all means, you are free to pick a job in the other 2 branches.



TL;DR 2 :
DPS is NOT the role you chose as a default because you don't want responsibilities (or being yelled at when you fail). DPS IS a role with a lot of responsibilities, and you'll get yelled at if you fail. So step up your game, stop stroking your ego (or anything else), focus on the game and do your best.