Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Eylirria]

The best thing about these threads?
They never do anything.

Because the people that post, rightfully complaining about giving others piggyback rides, will never get through to the people that they need to... because those people dont post on boards or even browse online... if they did, they might not be so terrible.
So we are left preaching to the ones that already know they have no desire to do better because how dare anyone imply they aren't good enough/great/gettingTheirSubsWorth/etc.

And now, lets continue with the biweekly waste of time.

[Kaurie]

The best thing about these threads?
They never do anything.

Because the people that post, rightfully complaining about giving others piggyback rides, will never get through to the people that they need to... because those people dont post on boards or even browse online... if they did, they might not be so terrible.
So we are left preaching to the ones that already know they have no desire to do better because how dare anyone imply they aren't good enough/great/gettingTheirSubsWorth/etc.

And now, lets continue with the biweekly waste of time.

but.. this thread has provided me with more hours of entertainment than the actual game has this week

[Asmodai]

The best thing about these threads?
They never do anything.

Because the people that post, rightfully complaining about giving others piggyback rides, will never get through to the people that they need to...

The people they need to get through to are not the people doing bad, its the people that defend them which the forums is full of. If you make it socially unacceptable to be bad less people will be bad.

[Archaell]

The people they need to get through to are not the people doing bad, its the people that defend them which the forums is full of. If you make it socially unacceptable to be bad less people will be bad.

This. The main problem are the people defending players being lazy and playing poorly. It is completely illogical and it seems like they are afraid of players getting better for some odd reason. Actually this should be called the elitism, preventing others from catching up.

If we want to make DF a better place:

1. The community has to stop defending lazy and bad play
2. The community has to encourage players to help others improve (instead of making them afraid of the vote kick every single time they try to help)
3. The community has to discourage the behaviour which goes against learning ("don't waste my time teaching him the best rotation, let's finish this!")
4. The community has to have no tolerance for selfish and non-cooperative single player play in the team based environment

Which is something almost impossible tho yet worthy of pursuing.

[Kuwagami]

This. The main problem are the people defending players being lazy and playing poorly. It is completely illogical and it seems like they are afraid of players getting better for some odd reason. Actually this should be called the elitism, preventing others from catching up.

If we want to make DF a better place:

1. The community has to stop defending lazy and bad play
2. The community has to encourage players to help others improve (instead of making them afraid of the vote kick every single time they try to help)
3. The community has to discourage the behaviour which goes against learning ("don't waste my time teaching him the best rotation, let's finish this!")
4. The community has to have no tolerance for selfish and non-cooperative single player play in the team based environment

Which is something almost impossible tho yet worthy of pursuing.

mentor system. Please look forward to it

I am staying a lil bit sceptical till the mentor system proves its value beyond getting some fancy icons, titles and rewards. It could also end up like the roulettes, which would be shame.

people will always abuse any system put in place. But we can't blame devs for not trying, because they do

[Archaell]

mentor system. Please look forward to it

I am staying a lil bit sceptical till the mentor system proves its value beyond getting some fancy icons, titles and rewards. It could also end up like the roulettes, which would be shame.

[SixtyLove]

This. The main problem are the people defending players being lazy and playing poorly. It is completely illogical and it seems like they are afraid of players getting better for some odd reason. Actually this should be called the elitism, preventing others from catching up.

If we want to make DF a better place:

1. The community has to stop defending lazy and bad play
2. The community has to encourage players to help others improve (instead of making them afraid of the vote kick every single time they try to help)
3. The community has to discourage the behaviour which goes against learning ("don't waste my time teaching him the best rotation, let's finish this!")
4. The community has to have no tolerance for selfish and non-cooperative single player play in the team based environment

Which is something almost impossible tho yet worthy of pursuing.

This.

Sadly, this is not something that can be fixed by the community, and those who do try will have difficulty trying to encourage and improve anyone who does not want to be helped. I was in an FC on Zodiark where after the release of HW there was a growing atmosphere of "well I got 60 first / got LAW gear first / beat A1N first" all from DPS players with poor rotation, and an unwillingness to improve as players. These players would also fail to complete boss mechanics properly due to them all starting well into the life cycle of ARR which meant they got a lot of carries through the level 50 post game content (LoTA / ST / Dungeons) by those in Ironworks gear where partial zergs were becomming the norm.

We did an FC run on Odin for people to get a clear. On my Yasha geared DRG I outdpsed 2 ninjas and a MNK who had a mix of EST tome gear and Alexander drops ....this was purely because I took the time to learn my job, rotation and to actually move out of AOE's to give healers an easier time. This is something that a lot of our newer players of DPS classes just can't be bothered with becaese "lewl soon there will be ilvl230 gear and we can zerg lolz". That is a sad reality to be honest with you, but it has to be expected. Dodging and mechanics aren't even that hard if you at least try, but a lot of players have been taught to not worry about the mechanics and so here we are. The irony is that one of those Ninja's asked me if I was scared of Alexander because I didn't attempt it on day one, unlike him.... however our FC leader was hounded by other players from the PF groups he joined because he was so bad at his job and would get himself one shotted/cause wipes/always be KO'd. I prefer to learn the strat for raid and gear appropriately before I attempt something, so I can pull my weight and not get a carry. If you know my DRG, then you know I'm no floor tanker.

You can't make those poor or unwilling types of players better because unfortunately their entitled attitude to 'play how I want' has been solidified by the ability to be carried through a lot of content by those of us who have been around since launch. The crux of the matter is, why should they learn when everyone else can do it for them? This is something that is encroached within the design of the game itself, so as a community we can all only do so much.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

And now, lets continue with the biweekly waste of time.

I'm happy so long as this post reaches 200 pages! Maybe the more massive threads about the subject, SE will eventually see it's a serious problem and do something about it!

[Dhex]

I'm happy so long as this post reaches 200 pages! Maybe the more massive threads about the subject, SE will eventually see it's a serious problem and do something about it!

They won't.

I'm sure any solution they implement will be targeted at people well below level 60 and simply won't filter up to players that didn't bother to learn in the first place.

Healers that don't get that they should CC, DPS during down time, and support are common; DPS that don't learn the new portions of their rotations, eat excessive damage, and miss mechanics are common; Tanks that pull/position improperly, don't utilize cooldowns, don't maximize damage, gear improperly, and can't keep hate are common; and that is all there is too be said.

If you want better players - expect better play.

Be a community - teach those willing to learn and push their boundaries.

[Saiah]

I can live with mistakes and an inperfect rotation. But I don't tolerate willfull ignorance. For example: A DRK in Dusk Vigil with an ilvl 47 weapon

I refuse to adapt to this kind of behaviour. Theres no excuse for it. Doing anything more than auto attack alone would get me aggro as MNK. But I didnt pull my punches (pun) to make absolutely clear that the problems this caused were on HIS end, and that he frankly had no business being in that dungeon at the time. Sure, I couldve just left. But this guy needed to get the facts spelled out to him. He's not going to learn otherwise. Eventually he was kicked because he went into foul language defensive mode as soon as he was asked why he just didnt buy a ilvl 115 white weapon.

My point is, some people need tough love. Their feelings are going to get hurt. But they need to lose the training wheels and put on the big boy pants. Theyre not playing alone, theyre hindering other people who DO make an effort.