Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Kaurie]

The irony, seeing how your attempt to derail me was far from courteous back on page 55, complete with Italics!.

People made arguments, and you shot them down using big words with little substance, incorrect reasoning and flawed conclusions. I pointed that out, as one does in a debate.

However, I'm sorry if I offended you.

Not saying I like it but it's a realistic outlook. As long as I keep my expectations for how the random people I encounter in a game will act extremely low I'll be less disappointed.

I choose to think better of people and let them disappoint me if they so please.

That said, if we are attempting to curve behaviour with etiquette, the most powerful tool is peer pressure. In this sense, having appropriate expectations and voicing displeasure when those expectations are not met are the best way we can do that. This is in the absence of having a hard rule set.

In this context, if someone is massively under-performing, we could mention what they are doing and/or how they could improve (i.e. Why are you not using Enochian?).

Granted, I often do not pay that much attention to others, and mostly just do my thing. If other people are underperforming, I've now grown to jaded to speak. On occassion I have said something. For example during my relic dungeon runs, I noticed a SMN using Garuda on sic and the pet did its knockback which affected the tank as well as AOE. So, I asked "Are you using Garuda on Sic?" he answered, "Yeah, I'am feeling lazy." to which I replied, "If you are going to use Sic, I recommend Ifrit as it generally performs better on Sic and won't do a knockback like Garuda." He then swapped and we continued on our merry way.

[Andrea]

For the sake of this argument Hot Shot is exactly like Enochian. Both give a 5% boost to damage. The OPs complaint was they were not using Enochian, nevermind the level 60 rotation right now.

Ok lets see if I can explain this.

Hotshot doesn't lock behind it 90% of MCH rotation behind it. Enochain does. If you arent at all even popping enochian then you obviously aren't doing 90% of your rotation.

A MCH that forgets to do hotshot now and again can indeed be top dps in a run like you said, and can indeed do pretty good dps even with forgetting it.

A BLM cannot do either of those things without using Enochain.

We can argue all day but they aren't even in the same league. A MCH who forgets hot shot but does everything else is trying. A BLM that doesn't use enochain is not.

[Cnidarian]

TheUltimateSeph,

Since you have DRG at 60, a BLM not using Enochian would be the equivalent of a DRG not using Blood of the Dragon. Both require the buff to be up to use a level 60 rotation. If a DRG lets BotD drop, they have to convert to using the rotation of shame (level 50 rotation). The same is true of BLM, if Enochian drops they are forced to convert to the level 50 rotation until they can use Enochian again.

[dark494]

snip

You, and everyone else who thinks like you, is what is wrong with this community. It is thoroughly embarrassing that you would even suggest this, that you'd even think of defending the kind of attitude your blm had instead of sticking up for the ones who are trying to help players improve. There is no excuse for anyone, at anytime, anywhere, to conciously hold back the rest of the group and be nothing but a hinderance. Nobody gets a free pass ever to be deadweight. You pull your own weight or you get left behind. It's downright rude and arrogant to your fellow players to suggest they have to carry you and do all your work for you.

It's an mmo, you want to act like a loser you go do it by yourself. The minute you step into anything with other players you are beholden to them to give only your best and earnest efforts, or you are wasting everyone's time and efforts by showing how vain you are.

[Iagainsti]

People made arguments, and you shot them down using big words with little substance, incorrect reasoning and flawed conclusions. I pointed that out, as one does in a debate.

However, I'm sorry if I offended you.

Naw, none taken, Red. I have tough skin, though I disagree due to my logic being sound, and the flawed conclusions were not on my part. I can deal with the underlying reproach attached to the above apology, sweetie, if you don't mind my subliminal patronizing ;D

[Kaurie]

Naw, none taken, Red. I have tough skin, though I disagree due to my logic being sound, and the flawed conclusions were not on my part. I can deal with the underlying reproach attached to the above apology, sweetie, if you don't mind my subliminal patronizing ;D

Sure thing. Good to know no offense was taken This is just a Video Game Forum discussion after all, can't get too upset over it.

[TheUltimateSeph]

TheUltimateSeph,

Since you have DRG at 60, a BLM not using Enochian would be the equivalent of a DRG not using Blood of the Dragon. Both require the buff to be up to use a level 60 rotation. If a DRG lets BotD drop, they have to convert to using the rotation of shame (level 50 rotation). The same is true of BLM, if Enochian drops they are forced to convert to the level 50 rotation until they can use Enochian again.

Oh of this I am well aware. Ironically I still out dps most people in my groups when not bothering with BoD. Hell as an experiment one time I went into Void Ark as a Lancer and used nothing but Chaos Thrust on the last boss and I was still staying at about 6-5th place on the enmity list for my party. Our level 50 rotations are still viable means of good dps. Our level 60 rotations let us do more obviously. It's what each person considers "good" I guess.

You, and everyone else who thinks like you, is what is wrong with this community. It is thoroughly embarrassing that you would even suggest this, that you'd even think of defending the kind of attitude your blm had instead of sticking up for the ones who are trying to help players improve. There is no excuse for anyone, at anytime, anywhere, to conciously hold back the rest of the group and be nothing but a hinderance. Nobody gets a free pass ever to be deadweight. You pull your own weight or you get left behind. It's downright rude and arrogant to your fellow players to suggest they have to carry you and do all your work for you.

It's an mmo, you want to act like a loser you go do it by yourself. The minute you step into anything with other players you are beholden to them to give only your best and earnest efforts, or you are wasting everyone's time and efforts by showing how vain you are.

You are the one being extremely rude here. In the OPs screen shot the healer didn't look at all like they were defending the BLM but trying to get everyone to just drop the whole issue as it was already resulting in a fight. This is trying to keep the peace, not defending bad play. To say people like him are what's wrong with the community is INCREDIBLY rude!

Ok lets see if I can explain this.

Hotshot doesn't lock behind it 90% of MCH rotation behind it. Enochain does. If you arent at all even popping enochian then you obviously aren't doing 90% of your rotation.

A MCH that forgets to do hotshot now and again can indeed be top dps in a run like you said, and can indeed do pretty good dps even with forgetting it.

A BLM cannot do either of those things without using Enochain.

We can argue all day but they aren't even in the same league. A MCH who forgets hot shot but does everything else is trying. A BLM that doesn't use enochain is not.

e_e I said nevermind the level 60 rotation for now. I was only comparing the boost in damage from the two skills, not rotations, since the OP wasn't complaining about rotations and a lot of people in this thread were saying at the very least they should have used Enochian.

[Andrea]

e_e I said nevermind the level 60 rotation for now. I was only comparing the boost in damage from the two skills, not rotations, since the OP wasn't complaining about rotations and a lot of people in this thread were saying at the very least they should have used Enochian.

And im saying he is complaining about the lack of enochain because their rotation requires you use it. I dont know how to make this clearer.

[TheUltimateSeph]

And im saying he is complaining about the lack of enochain because their rotation requires you use it. I dont know how to make this clearer.

just got into a roulette with a blackmage that didnt use enochian, after noticing when the first boss took longer than expected, I called him out on it and got this wonderful tidbit of dialog


I wouldn't have cared as much if they had just used enochian snip

In the screenshot the OP never mentions rotations at all, and in the bolded part says they would have been happy with just Enochian. If it was also because they wouldn't be able to use their 60 rotation they didn't mention it at all in game.

[Andrea]

In the screenshot the OP never mentions rotations at all, and in the bolded part says they would have been happy with just Enochian. If it was also because they wouldn't be able to use their 60 rotation they didn't mention it at all in game.

Yes because if they aren't using enochain then they obviously aren't even attempting to do their rotation at all.