Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[RiceisNice]

You are someone who clumps all the bad players into one arch type, just because they responded negatively to not so nice criticism.

I critique people all the time, these negative push back responses are generally caused by negative accusations. Obviously some exceptions.
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The bolded statement is my point, I'm not sure why you're opening up with the hostility towards me; I even mentioned that OP's critism may have been not-so-nice, but it wouldn't have changed the fact that the BLM in question would have most likely made a problem out of it anyway (especially if it's gotten as far as a collective vote dismiss). It's offensive when the players take it as offensive.

Let's assume for one second that you're dealing with someone who hasn't games since they were 5 like a lot of people.

Let's assume they play beat em up games. Let's also say they get % buff moves they can use to more easily down enemies. If the conditions to win are literally only "kill bad guys" they aren't going to care about the speed at which they die as long as the game says "you won" so if they find spamming 2-3 moves instead of the whole arsenal enough for victory they won't feel the need to do more cuz they are meeting the win condition.

They don't think about someone out there beat the same game in half the time by using tools efficiently. The game never let them know " you're doing it wrong"

They jump on FF. They are able
To get to 60 without ever using say blood for blood. Sometimes YES these people need some explaining and a new mindset. Casual games getting easier and easier and killing self improve mindsets.

A lot of this isn't even the scope of the discussion (or the person you're replying to for that matter) though. We're not talking someone that's entirely new to the game (they're level 60 at that point), it's not out of their way to get the skill (something like Enochian, BotD, even some cooldowns like B4B and HE native to the job and available). If you're a DRG that doesn't ever use B4B or BotD, you're either not using it because you're lazy, or you don't know what it does (which means you didn't read the tool tip, which isn't a problem within the scope of the game but in general). The game puts the skills into your skill bar as you get them, too.

[Pomelo]

The fact of the matter is this.

FF is a game based around time. We have weekly locks, nodes that spawn based on time, crops that spawn on time, houses that demolish with time, everything is a time sink.

People who play sub optimally are wasting the MOST precious currency in the game which is Time. This is why people get so angry when others play badly, because you cannot get time back, once its used it is gone.

[EnoraTaqa]

Not because a skill is there means you should use it. Of course it could make the instance of that particular moment be a saved one, but hey, mistakes happens, PS4 controller don't have enough buttons etc..

Somes are playing this game for what is should be: Fun.

Some takes a game too seriously.

For us, it's quite simple:

1- is this a Raid? Yes -> Be serious and put out all that you can, and get ready to listen and adapt.

No -> enjoy the game the way you want it, as long as you clear what you got yourself into. Even if it takes 10-15 more minutes than what Some would like.

2- Did you have a blast? Yes -> Ask if you can add them in game if on the same server. Keep up playing the way you want it.

No -> Was this a Raid? Yes -> Review your mistakes and try to correct them.

No -> You still like the game? Yes -> Oh well, stuff happens. Retry and have fun!

No -> Go play another game or take a break until next patch.

We don't care if you don't like the way we play. We get things done, and if you try to kick one, there's 2 that's going out: worse, it's the Tank and Healer, so good luck on your wait, while we will insta queue once again, and perhaps being mixed with decent people that will enjoy the ride.

[Critical-Limit]

All confirmation the game isn\\'t at fault for people not understanding the basics.

It teaches them a little for sure. But win conditions are an important tool to let people know they need to improve.

People who've played this game since the beginning have atleast run into in game checks that were win/lose at some point. Whether it's DPS check on killing ifrits extremes nails, awareness from thornmarch extreme, or healer/tank skill checks when you're forced into the content at minimum gear level.

A brand new person today. Is going to be over geared for pretty much every fight otw to 60, because there are no meaningful dPS checks before 60. Old content is either nerfed or if you DF other dPS can carry you at Max item level and experience.

It is partially games in general fault including FFXIV for breeding the bad player when the content prior to the hard stuff is face roll easy.

[Vivi_Bushido]

Not bec a skill is there means you should use it.

Somes are playing this game for what is should be: Fun.

Some takes a game too seriously.

I don't know maybe it's just me, but if I'm paying a monthly sub, your damn right I'm gonna take it seriously.

[AnaviAnael]

I said it once already in this thread and I'll repeat it.

If you chose to use DF then you should expect at least some of the time to run into poor players. That is just a reality of grouping with completely random people. Nothing you say or do will change that.

And you know what? You're absolutely right. With any online game, you're going to have people who play poorly. My argument, and I believe the argument of a lot of people here, is that this is happening more and more frequently. I rip hate all the time off tanks as SMN, healers refuse to remove debuffs, people using auto attack and not positioning for certain moves...I think people are at their breaking points.

[StrejdaTom]

Not because a skill is there means you should use it. Of course it could make the instance of that particular moment be a saved one, but hey, mistakes happens, PS4 controller don't have enough buttons etc..

Somes are playing this game for what is should be: Fun.

Some takes a game too seriously.

For us, it's quite simple:

1- is this a Raid? Yes -> Be serious and put out all that you can, and get ready to listen and adapt.

No -> enjoy the game the way you want it, as long as you clear what you got yourself into. Even if it takes 10-15 more minutes than what Some would like.

I still don't understand how not using skills that are kinda mandatory for your job (enochian for BLM is pretty mandatory if you ask me) makes the game more entertaining than using your whole skillset. No one is asking people in random roulettes to use their cooldowns so they would line-up like they are used to do it in raids, but what is so hard about popping your buffs, especially when they are ready at boss?

With your logic being in non-raid instance I can just turn my wanderers minuet off, auto attack mobs and watch films on my second monitor. Hey, it will take 20 minutes longer but it will clear what I got myself into.

[Reilyn]

It teaches them a little for sure. But win conditions are an important tool to let people know they need to improve.

People who've played this game since the beginning have atleast run into in game checks that were win/lose at some point. Whether it's DPS check on killing ifrits extremes nails, awareness from thornmarch extreme, or healer/tank skill checks when you're forced into the content at minimum gear level.

A brand new person today. Is going to be over geared for pretty much every fight otw to 60, because there are no meaningful dPS checks before 60. Old content is either nerfed or if you DF other dPS can carry you at Max item level and experience.

It is partially games in general fault including FFXIV for breeding the bad player when the content prior to the hard stuff is face roll easy.

I have, and will agree with you again; this is true.

The teaching is there, but the competency tests aren't until endgame. The people who care before then are the driven/not lazy. For the unmotivated/lazy, it's a big wake-up call when they realized they haven't felt the need to practice the basics as they leveled despite the game teaching it.

There are only a few exceptions, such as bard's minuet changing the job, and related skills that make it worth using in the mid to late 50s; I admit that is poorly structured.

[Ashkendor]

This image always ends up being apropos in these threads.

"I pay my sub, I have the right to play however I want." Yes, yes you do. You are free to ignore tooltips and not use skills and just generally play as terribly as possible. You are free to lash out at people that try to help you and scream the ever-hated "Don't tell me how to play my class!!" The flip side is that other people are free to offer that help, and will probably continue do so no matter how many times you flip your shit because there are tons of different players in the DF. Some of them will try to be helpful. Others will not be so nice about it. You see, everyone else pays their subs just like you. They are also free to punt you the hell out of the party if you lash out at them or if they just don't want to deal with your terrible play. When you're running Neverreap for the thousandth time, nobody wants it to take 45 minutes because "playing the game your way" involves using only autoattacks as a bard.

I really don't understand the "some of us are casual," argument that a few people are trying to use here because the casuals I know like to be good at the game too. I know that people exist that don't care about their game performance, but I personally can't even begin to fathom the concept. Before I enter any dungeon on a class, I make sure I have at least a decent idea of the rotation so I'm not a burden on the party. That doesn't mean I'm never going to screw it up, but it does mean I'm going to at least try. To me, it's only considerate. The few times I ventured into DF as a BLM (before I decided I hated the new rotation and dropped it like a hot rock) I flat out apologized for my bad play because I kept dropping Enochian. I guess I just don't understand how people can just sit back and be terrible at something and be happy with that because they do it "for funsies." Being good at stuff is fun. o.O

[AnaviAnael]

Not because a skill is there means you should use it. Of course it could make the instance of that particular moment be a saved one, but hey, mistakes happens, PS4 controller don't have enough buttons etc..

Somes are playing this game for what is should be: Fun.

I personally have the most fun when I see a group get together and be awesome. Nobody is asking for people to be perfect, we're just asking for effort. Where this argument falls apart is it assumes the fun of one person outweighs the fun of the other three people. "I use a poor rotation, but it's ok because I had fun. Who cares if the other party members were upset?"