What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[Cynric]

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No reason to have that attitude just because people enjoy different things about tanking. I enjoy having high tank DPS to carry the bad ones and make the difference between a clear and seeing an enrage. I also noted that for me it's different. I pay PvP. My reasons for playing a tank and yours are different.

Since I am a PvPer a lack of tank dps when Dark Knight doesn't have the level of CC warrior or paladin do, playing Dark Knight would kind of be pointless if I can't even do decent damage. While yes I strength tank in pve and I enjoy doing it. I tanked in 2.0 with vitality and while it was boring to tank on paladin in lots of fights. That's more because of the lack of other things to do while tanking than doing good DPS. However at least for now I can contribute decent damage to help beat an enrage or make a run quicker.

But as far as the meta or your mindset hate or whatever. Don't lump me in with your hate. I'm a PvPer, I could care less whether you enjoy sitting in front of a boss while healers and DPS carry you or whether you enjoy pushing numbers. I just like being able to survive and kill in PvP and do the same in pve. If they nerf that i'll just go back to DPS.

snip.

So let me get this straight. It's okay for us to sit in front of the boss and do bare minimum DPS, turtle in tank stance and pop a CD every now and then for a buster. While the healers not only heal us, and do mechanics, but also stance dance for cleric stance to push out a ton of DPS, while the DPS does mechanics as well.

It's not okay for healers to just heal but it's okay for tanks to just tank? That seems kind of like a double standard.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Since I am a PvPer a lack of tank dps when Dark Knight doesn't have the level of CC warrior or paladin do, playing Dark Knight would kind of be pointless if I can't even do decent damage. While yes I strength tank in pve and I enjoy doing it. I tanked in 2.0 with vitality and while it was boring to tank on paladin in lots of fights. That's more because of the lack of other things to do while tanking than doing good DPS. However at least for now I can contribute decent damage to help beat an enrage or make a run quicker.

I play a Rank 50 Tank (Paladin) in PvP as well (Which you might be able to guess by the Helm of the Behemoth King my portrait shows at times), and I am fully aware that currently we are slightly tougher (~1500 hp in Sealed Rock) positional free melee DpS with fewer damage boosting cool downs while wearing Strength accessories and very tough, mediocre DpS while wearing Vit Accessories.

I doubt that they plan to completely destroy tank DpS. There may be a roughly 10% decrease in DpS for a Tank wearing Str Accessories, but this would come with a roughly 10% increase in Tank DpS while in Vit Accessories. This would lead to a choice of 5% DpS versus 27% hp (~3k at Sealed Rock's i150 levelsync)

So let me get this straight. It's okay for us to sit in front of the boss and do bare minimum DPS, turtle in tank stance and pop a CD every now and then for a buster. While the healers not only heal us, and do mechanics, but also stance dance for cleric stance to push out a ton of DPS, while the DPS does mechanics as well.

It's not okay for healers to just heal but it's okay for tanks to just tank? That seems kind of like a double standard.

The thing is that a Tank in Str gear and and a Tank in Vit gear do not do anything really different. Both use the same rotations to max DpS, both can do the same stance dancing, etc. The difference in numbers just happens to be influenced by 5 right side equipment pieces.

[Fue]

Id rather see them removing vit accessories and balance the game around tanks using str accessories. Cause if they end up making tanks scale fully from vit, itll become pretty boring role when you have so much hp always to just not even bother using cd's and letting healers carry all the weight.

[Alahra]

I'm still failing to see at all why you wouldn't maximize your GCD use and stance-dancing if a fight required full Fending for some reason (such as for tank busters more akin to those from ARR, wherein it was much more difficult to run full Slaying). Nothing about the playstyle has to change even if they start requiring more HP from tanks to survive in future raid content. Tanks are still going to want to push as much DPS as they can, especially when tackling content at lower gear levels, where DPS checks are harder to meet.

[Sapphidia]

Yeah I'm getting really sick of so many people equating "needing to stack vit" with "being lazy". There's no correlation. Tanks gear their health according to the maximum size of hits they expect to take in an encounter, or according to what "free" health they get on their gear. If all fending accessories had strength on too you'd see tanks with closer to 20k hp in Alex Savage, sure, but they'd still be using the same rotations and cooldown use.

How much Vit a tank needs is of no relevance to how lazy they are. The -weaker-a boss hits, the less vit they need. If they make all tanks use nothing but fending accessories you can bet they'll increase the overall damage coming at them. The tank buster in A1S hits for 25,000 damage, which means you can easily survive it with cooldowns and a tank stance with around 16k base health. If the tank buster hit for 35,000 damage then tanks would be stacking Fending gear and you'd still need an even more perfect top-off of health + shielding to survive.

Stop with the ignorant "needing vit = lazy" arguments please, tanks gear as appropriate to the encounter and play the same regardless of their base stats.

And as for " letting healers carry all the weight." - this is precisely what the current Meta enforces with the need for tanks to tank in DPS stance so frequently to hit the dps checks. A conscious decision to make yourself harder to heal in order to push out more DPS. The amount of incoming damage in an encounter is a joint effort between the mitigation of a tank and the heal output of a healer, and in the current meta tanks are pushing as much weight onto their healers as humanly possible by gearing to be as squishy as they can get away with to maximise dps output and pushing the onus of surviving onto the healer team.

[Donjo]

Id rather see them removing vit accessories and balance the game around tanks using str accessories. Cause if they end up making tanks scale fully from vit, itll become pretty boring role when you have so much hp always to just not even bother using cd's and letting healers carry all the weight.

No matter what equipment a Tank is wearing, it is considered to be very poor play to eschew the use of cooldowns. In full VIT you may be less likely to die if you use no cooldowns, but your healer(s) will still sneer at you.

[Zaresin]

If they make tanking actually about tanking rather than a heavy wearing dps I would be happy and play tank more than healer. The current meta of gearing for tanks doesn't sit well with me as to me, gearing dps stats on a tank isn't what makes a tank a tank. It's about defense and protecting your group from harm as much as possible. The current style of tanking is honestly just a wannabe dps. If they do make VIT scale the damage of the tanks they would be able to adjust the contribution ratio for each of the tank jobs rather than making the tank sacrifice what makes their class a tank class and make it easier to adjust the damage of their skills

[Zaresin]

To be honest, all this new meta created was a bunch of number chasers. All it ends up becoming is a toxic pissing contest.

[Cynric]

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My problem isn't that we wouldn't do the same thing as before. Just that the contribution wouldn't be the same.As it stands right now if my DPS are sub-par I can make up for it. The only problem would be if they were to decrease tank DPS by 50% like some people suggest. At that point optimization wouldn't really help as much in terms of raid DPS and it would fall on the healers stronger DPS at that point and the DPS to meet the required DPS.

Yeah we do the same stuff but we contribute less over all for the same work. I don't really like the idea of contributing less for the same work.

As far as pvp goes. If it's like 10% that's not too big a deal as long as the burst is still decent. If it's a big change like 50% then there'd be no point in having the extra bulk for such little damage with an already lack of CC. Paladin functioned fine before having more DPS since they can stun lock. They weren't really getting the most kills but they could at least support and lead into kills. Warrior can hold someone down with holmgang with or without high damage. Dark Knight however gets a small duration heavy and most likely one opportunity to stun with low blow, neither are really mind blowing CC skills. So by that information if tank DPS does get nerfed down to 50% of what it is , there's really no reason for me to run in as Dark Knight just for the extra health.

[Rbstr]

Id rather see them removing vit accessories and balance the game around tanks using str accessories. Cause if they end up making tanks scale fully from vit, itll become pretty boring role when you have so much hp always to just not even bother using cd's and letting healers carry all the weight.

Or they just make subsequent tank busters hit harder? No one gets hit with tank busters or boss autoattacks aside from tanks so Devs have plenty of room to make them hit harder.