What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[Gumbercules]

changing vit to calculate damage and removing str is literally the best and simplest way to deal with the issue, which is why i think this is the way they might be going. gameplay wise it would literally change nothing I would currently do as a tank/OT. Would make calculating tank dps and survival for future content easier since they would be pretty much tied together in a single "stat" Course there's math etc that has to go into it, but im seeing this as the best solution, keeps what we can see now is the intended playstyle intact while reining in the "tank-onry" outliers :P

Mostly curious about what will happen to parry :P i really could see it being a new primary stat :P

[Rbstr]

*snip*

I guess, I don't figure that tank DPS will remain quite so disparate between the jobs. Especially since we've heard that the Paladin will be receiving some attention in 3.1.
...If paladin really is getting a buff? If it's just TP changes then I'll be more worried about an overall tank buff.

But it seems kind of nuts to me they'd add in all these tank DPS options in 3.0 only to squish it down in a big way.
My biggest bets are:
1. Forcing tanks what are actively tanking things to use tank stance though higher outgoing damage, super high front accuracy caps, hate tweaks or something else.
2. Forcing tanks back into fending accessories with role-restrictions, changing the damage primary to vit, adding strength to them and/or increasing the HP thresholds.

It might be that they don't want tank DPS quite as high as simply swapping the stats would have it and they hit the scaling factor a little bit, but a really big hit, or complicated Strength cap mechanics seem unlikely.

[DarioSkydragon]

Am i the only one that sees the irony in people threatening to ragequit the game if tank dps is nerfed by a function of it potentially not being optimal to be running around in full slaying gear anymore?

The hysteria ensuing from entertaining the idea of the devs literally halving tank dps (wholly unrealistic) only serves to add more and more bitter salt to a thread that is rapidly derailing. Lets try and stay realistic and stop catastrophizing as though your dps is a stained glass window to be imminently shattered.

I really like the current tank meta. In HW, tank DPS scaled up and if im in full STR acc i can beat non-optimal dps players while mt/ot on dps stance. Things got so much better for me. I have ot and mt a lot at 2.X, but tanking now is so much more fun and challenging.

[Ibi]

If SE is looking at Tank Damage calculations, it'd be because they don't like the Damage Results tanks are dishing out. If they were fine with tanks having high potential DPS they'd just leave things the way they are. In correlation they referred to hybrid accessories as 'exploits.'

Or it's because they don't like that Fending accessories are considered irrelevant. Or because they don't like that undergeared tanks are following the meta without understanding why, and it's causing DF healers to have to work much harder.

Also, I don't see the word exploit, or any kind of synonym for it, in their post.

No one thinks you should have vit count for hp and damage at 100% of their current scaling if not for the fact that it would nerf tank dps by an utterly miniscule amount across the board which a lot of people are bullheadedly opposed to.

I.e. 50 vit in 3.2 could give the equivalent of what 35 vit+35str currently gives.

They'd have to modify enmity calculations with this also, I suspect, or you run into an issue with this where tank DPS increases at only 70% the rate of DPS classes. Keep that up long enough, and even the best tanks will struggle to keep aggro.

All I wanna know is if I should be buying fending accessories or not.

We've got long enough between now and 3.2 that you've got plenty of time to pick up a set. It's probably worth doing, even just to have more options available in 3.2.

[Alahra]

All I wanna know is if I should be buying fending accessories or not.

With what information we have available, I would be willing to bet that yes, you should, unless they intend to remove Fending accessories entirely and just give tanks Need privileges on Slaying gear (which is highly unlikely, as that would mean 4 players in a standard eight-man rolling on the same accessories, which isn't a great state of affairs either). I'd imagine their end goal is for tanks to be seeking Fending accessories as they're meant to.

Maybe once we get more information that bet would change, but I'd say it's highly likely that you'll want them at the start of 3.2.

[Syzygian]

I really like the current tank meta. In HW, tank DPS scaled up and if im in full STR acc i can beat non-optimal dps players while mt/ot on dps stance. Things got so much better for me. I have ot and mt a lot at 2.X, but tanking now is so much more fun and challenging.

Your posts are worded like advertisements or endorsements for a product. o.o

I'm super curious as to how things were so poor for you pre-HW?

Tanking was super challenging in FCOB with the exception of the faceroll (for tanks) that is T11. What were you doing that lacked so much challenge? WAR sans Defiance or a PLD in SwO, in full slaying gear, could out-DPS bad DPS players in 2.x too. DPS tanking didn't appear magically out of thin air in 3.0....

Its pretty sweet that tanks can deal good DPS when you play them right but where did this attitude come from like we are entitled to it through what essentially amounts to an oversight that lets us cheese content by putting on gear not intended for our job? Of course its more efficient and (arguably) needed to clear content, but you have to know in the scope of the design and mechanics of the game that we are not meant to be wearing slaying gear to play optimally.

They'd have to modify enmity calculations with this also, I suspect, or you run into an issue with this where tank DPS increases at only 70% the rate of DPS classes. Keep that up long enough, and even the best tanks will struggle to keep aggro.

I keep seeing these enmity arguments. You people do realize that a tank can keep hate against equally geared DPS/healers in full fending gear right? If they made damage scale with VIT, even if it is only half as much as fully gearing in STR currently does, that's still 50% more enmity over what you actually need.

It's also a really fun way to tank trying to maximize my DPS, if they say.. Cut the DPS in half , there'd be no reason to play it

I'm continuously seeing this in this thread. People essentially coming out and saying that the reason they play tank is... DPS. I wear slaying and melds with the best of them but it has zero to do with me maximizing my DPS as a player; that is rests solely on my muscle memory, ability to time oGCDs properly, maximize uptime, and maintain a high level of raid awareness and optimal GCD usage. If tanks could only wear fending gear there would still be poor tank DPS and good tank DPS it would just be based on "gasp" skill and not gear.

If you go to FFLogs right now and have a look at tanking DPS leaderboards do you know what they tell you? Nothing. That's because you have no idea what gear they were wearing. Maybe they were wearing pentamelds, maybe full slaying, maybe a mix of both. Maybe they even had some fending pieces. Look at their healers... where they parsing 250 DPS combined or 650? You can't even tell who's a good player or not because there's no baseline gear level by which to measure because everybody is wearing something different depending on the needs of their group. If you look at DRGs, you can, within a certain margin, tell who is playing optimally because you can be assured that they are all packing about 200-235 STR in their right side. 30-40 point gap. With tanks that cap can be hundreds of points wide. I know tanks that raid that are HORRIBAD that wear full slaying and tanks that raid that are actually very good at their jobs that wear mostly fending or melds.

This ridiculous muddying of what is or is not optimal play is what I'm hoping squeenix does away with. Does it necessarily mean our DPS is getting nerfed into the ground? No. I don't understand why people insist on fear-mongering that this is what is at hand.

[Kaisinel]

I think the reason so many of us enjoy pushing DPS and stance swapping and all that is because it takes away fromy the boring meta of "oh let me stand here with my bazillion HP that I can't possibly die with while waiting for the next big hit to pop a cool down for and still not be close to dying cause I have a bazillion HP" some of us actually want to push our play and skill to the max and not be carebears. Sorry most of you ruin the game for everyone, if you want a game to emulate WoW so bad just go play WoW.

[Syzygian]

"oh let me stand here with my bazillion HP that I can't possibly die with while waiting for the next big hit to pop a cool down for and still not be close to dying cause I have a bazillion HP"

I have never encountered this mindset ANYWHERE in the game barring new/still leveling tanks.

[Xenosan]

.

It's possible we have completely different perceptions of the developers. To this day I still envision SE as the sadistic demon it was in 2002-2005 (before WoW really started stealing the playerbase). That thing threw out nerfs like it was confetti. Every patch note you'd groan at the sight of words like 'adjusted,' because you know they didn't mean 'adjusted' like in a good way. You don't exactly advertise a nerf, not without soaking it in honey and using 'feinted language.'

'Adjustment' and 'appropriate,' those are code-words. The further and further we move away from the 1.0 catastrophe and the ARR rebuild the more and more I prepare myself for the return of that monster. Probably why I'm cowering under my desk hearing bomb sirens instead of looking for the shining airplane in the sky. But yea I'd be delighted if my intuition proves false.

[Kaisinel]

I have never encountered this mindset ANYWHERE in the game barring new/still leveling tanks.

Have you read the tank threads where everyone is up in arms about STR gear and how tanks must wear vit!