What they mean by "change the damage calculations of tanks"?

[whiskeybravo]

What if:
Tank wasn't using cooldowns properly.
Healer wasn't healing properly.

So, your mind automaticly goes to they lost because he didn't have the HP? I read that and that .. does not seem to be the case. However, it seems like there was a lot more going on then that.

It seems like one of them simply didn't know how to play their class and weave in their cool-downs correctly.

That makes my point even stronger, if the tank wasn't using cooldowns properly then that's a lazy tank, right? A lazy tank wearing str accessories.. But that defies your logic!

And I meant to add, the healers did switch up, and it didn't matter, he still died. 1 new healer and 1 new dps, 5 people on a4 and 1 on a3 should've been able to get the clear. But it didn't happen. We didn't need his extra 200 or 300 dps from slaying accessories, we needed him to stay alive.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

That makes my point even stronger, if the tank wasn't using cooldowns properly then that's a lazy tank, right? A lazy tank wearing str accessories.. But that defies your logic!

And I meant to add, the healers did switch up, and it didn't matter, he still died. 1 new healer and 1 new dps, 5 people on a4 and 1 on a3 should've been able to get the clear. But it didn't happen. We didn't need his extra 200 or 300 dps from slaying accessories, we needed him to stay alive.

Not really Lazy. Laziness is knowing you can do better but only doing enough. That is lazy.

Not knowing at all but trying your best is just not knowing how to play well. That is incompetence.

[Ashkendor]

Why else does it give us a choice?

While we're able to equip anything, we can only roll Need on Fending gear.

What if:
Tank wasn't using cooldowns properly.
Healer wasn't healing properly.

So, your mind automaticly goes to they lost because he didn't have the HP? I read that and that .. does not seem to be the case. However, it seems like there was a lot more going on then that.

It seems like one of them simply didn't know how to play their class and weave in their cool-downs correctly.

Did you miss the part where one of the healers was new or something? Here's a news flash for you - Savage is an enormous healing check. There's ridiculous amounts of damage going out at many points during those fights. Like any encounter, it takes a few times through the entire fight before you really have a feel for the pacing of when people take damage, when it's relatively safe to sneak in some DPS, etc. Unlike most other encounters (let's face it, most of what we have is faceroll content), even small mistakes are absolutely deadly if your healers are inexperienced. Any tank worth even half their salt would slap on some VIT (or melded) gear if they knew any of the healers were new to the fight, because a little wiggle room can be the difference between "ohgodIhave500hpHEALSPLZ" and eating the cold metal floor. I run A1S in full slaying, but I have a raiding static that's been clearing it for 2 months now. If it's obvious that healing is an issue for whatever reason (hey, everyone can have an off day), I'd still slap on more HP after a few wipes because the point is to clear the content, not for me to try to be a one-woman Paladin Deeps crusader.

[whiskeybravo]

Not really Lazy. Laziness is knowing you can do better but only doing enough. That is lazy.

Not knowing at all but trying your best is just not knowing how to play well. That is incompetence.

The difference is, I was there. I know what his CD rotation was and it's the same rotation most wars use. And while he has been clearing a1 on drg for months, it was his first time tanking it, so yea a few wipes are expected until you can figure it out. So wear some damn vitality. That's all I asked, help the healer. "Knowing you can do better but only doing enough" you just defined it, it was lazy of him to wear full str and expect the healers to carry him. Just admit it.

Anyways, sorry to others for the excursion, just a short story to illustrate a point. Please resume speculating about the new adjustments

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

*puts popcorn away

They could do the new accessories to be similar to how the current pentamelds run, a split between VIT and the other main stat. I know the statement was made about end game crafters being left out, but tank classes are the only ones using them for end game raids (not counting food/pots) so that argument is not very compelling and for another forum.

A straight VIT based damage formula would be flawed - the highest VIT achieved on a Paladin based on gear alone is over 1110. Strength cap on a DRG is 1070 ish. Without a near complete rework of skill potencies, buffs/debuffs, the fact that tanks would have a ridiculous amount of health and still put out the damage, and the non cookie cutter fact that tank gear would be the only class with 3 stats on it, I just think it's too much actual work to do for the devs (says the guy with no programming experience). Yes, it would be possible, but wouldn't it be easier for SE to use the existing damage formula -changed to the new stat - versus doing a complete to rework in order to account for more available VIT?

The only way to prevent tanks from using slaying gear would be to either:
1- make it unequippable (won't happen)
2 - Change the tank meta to turtle meta (and lose many DPS to tank converts in the process, and could cause issues in current end game)
3- Make strength worthless on tanks and go to VIT (possible - see above)
4- Come up with a Tank Specific stat for damage, convert strength on present left side gear to the new stat, AND put it on the accessories - just like the Ninja release (because SE hates following the same pattern they have already done before)

TL;DR
New tank stat is easiest

[Alahra]

New tank stat is easiest

Modifying the damage calculation so that stat impact is split in some fashion between STR and VIT would have similar results without the need to incorporate an entirely new stat into the game, adjusting all of that gear, and so on. So long as VIT provided more benefit than STR (a 40/60 split or something, perhaps, but the exact numbers would vary, of course), Fending accessories would be preferred over Slaying. This would potentially be accompanied by an adjustment of how much HP VIT provides, but they wouldn't necessarily have to change that. Tanks are already using pentamelded accessories at the highest levels of play, so they may just be looking to make that the new "baseline" for future raids.

[SwordCoheir]

Otherwise that is a double nerf to damage.

We technically already have a triple nerf in the DPS area. Tanks already have lower DPS due to lack of attack buffs, then Tank Stance takes out another good chunk, and if we are forced to use VIT for something that only serves to hurt us further. At least the STR to VIT primary stat change would eliminate that last factor for good.

I don't find a tank more health easier to heal at all because it doesn't make it easier, it doesn't do anything but give you more health.

This is pretty true, health can go higher and higher, but a healers Cures don't scale as well as a person's HP can, which can effectively make a huge HP pools moot.

But beyond that there really isn't much else to add to the argument. A swap over to VIT can only buff tanks and make loot distribution in raids that much easier taking 3 jobs out of the equation for Slaying accessories.

[whiskeybravo]

Tanks are already using pentamelded accessories at the highest levels of play, so they may just be looking to make that the new "baseline" for future raids.

It depends how SE views current tank damage. Did they intend for tanks to use crafted items (or all slaying) such as they have, or do they view this as sort of an exploit that they want to control better moving forward? The fact they are looking to adjust the damage output makes me wonder.

[Alahra]

It depends how SE views current tank damage.

I don't know if they view it as an exploit, persay, because players that are doing so are working well within the confines of the game. But, given their stance on melds in progression in other cases (such as VIT on crafted accessories for DPS to beat HP checks sooner than gear would allow, or crafted left side accelerating progression in FCOB), they probably don't *like* pentamelded accessories being the best option for tanks.

Pentamelds are kind of middle of the road between full Slaying and full Fending, though, so I anticipate that however tanks end up in 3.2, they'll be comparable to current tanks running full pentamelds, if only because striking some kind of middle ground is one of the most straightforward ways to please the greatest number of players.

Whatever they do, once a new baseline, built on Fending accessories, is in place, they'll tune future raid encounters accordingly. Part of the trouble now seems to be that they can't reliably anticipate what accessories tanks will use (whereas they can generally do so with all other classes).

[Ultimatecalibur]

Pentamelds are kind of middle of the road between full Slaying and full Fending, though, so I anticipate that however tanks end up in 3.2, they'll be comparable to current tanks running full pentamelds, if only because striking some kind of middle ground is one of the most straightforward ways to please the greatest number of players.

Pentamelds are a bit more powerful than that. An i150 accessory has roughly 2/3rd the primary stat of an i210 accessory resulting in pentamelds that are roughly 33% better than the highest ilevel gear available.