Speed Runs Suck

[Malevicton]

snip

But again, dungeons aren't suppose to be making bad players good. That's the player's responsibility. We've seen with guildhests that you can specifically design encounters as tutorials and people will still herpaderp through it, mashing esc through all the windows and not reading text. Designing dungeons to help people learn, besides being extremely boring for passably decent players, will just do the same thing as guildhests (nothing). And for the players who might be able to learn from those types of experiences, we already have guildhests. You're putting way too heavy of a burden on dungeon design if you want them to correct bad players.

Also that pull was manageable in Lost City when it was released if folks played right.

[Blitzace]

As a tank you decide what is being pulled, If someone pulls something let em die(If they do it on purpose) If its your first time, They shouldn't speed run simple as that.

I had a new tank yesterday in a lv 50 dungeon, For fun i said, Pull it all matey Arrr! And he was a fun guy and surely he did. Pulled everything, We didn't wipe we had fun. So it all comes down to the tank. If you are comfortable with it, Do it, if not give it some more time, But in all honesty, Aim to speed run though. People like those tanks, If we can speed through it, Speed through it.

[Yurihyuga]

As a tank, you're the one who sets the run speed in regular dungeons. Don't like to speedrun? Just pull small packs. DPS trying to pull more packs? Let them die, unless thet can actually manage to tank them.

Always say you're new to the content. That way no one can really blame you if you mess up and no one told you what to do.

I don't think there's a whole lot of actual speedrunning happening in low-level dungeons, so you could go on and give healing a try as well.

Problem is especially with these new dungeons and peoples new rotations such as botd/enochain/dreadwyrm stacks dps are more in a hurry now than ever to stay efficient, slow pulls = detrimental to dps. Tanks are being forced to pull more even healers pull more mobs if the tank pulls slow. Tanks setting the pace is pretty much dying and learning how to speedrun is pretty much essential. I have seen instances of people getting extremely angry when tanks pull slow one person rage quits - tank is all alone as expert queues are pretty short still for dps.

[karateorangutang]

This might be beside the point, but big pulls will ( if they aren't dense) force a newer tank to get used to the idea of mitigating damage through cooldowns on trash pulls. I can't tell you how many times in lower lvl dungeons I see tanks not using their defensive cooldowns at all until the boss. This is a huge disconnect and learning how to deal with big pulls forces a tank to use their cooldowns intelligently or the party will wipe. Sure, the first couple times you try your gonna fail and go down in a blaze of glory, but usually you can give simple advice about using cooldowns to their advantage and you can see a mediocre tank become a good tank over the course of a single dungeon.

Knowledge of proper cooldown rotation and pre-meditated use of the lvl 50 tank cooldowns is not taught in the game system. It's up to the player and senior players to help people along with this.

[starLivitation]

As a tank, you're the one who sets the run speed in regular dungeons. Don't like to speedrun? Just pull small packs. DPS trying to pull more packs? Let them die, unless thet can actually manage to tank them.

Always say you're new to the content. That way no one can really blame you if you mess up and no one told you what to do.

I don't think there's a whole lot of actual speedrunning happening in low-level dungeons, so you could go on and give healing a try as well.

its not always as simple as that, i have tried it once, and i was called a retard for not picking up the mobs they wanted to pick. and on another ocasions they tanked fine. in the end, i was also kicked before the last boss, with many insults.

thats why i never, run tank for dungens anymore unless it's for my friends or FC, why shud I? when my healer is my main job anyway i have no reason to queue as a tank, unless there is only 40m left todo expert before the reset, and i need that instant queue. there is no other reaosn for me.

[Metalwrath]

Unfortunatly due to players already being overgeared the letting the dps die strat doesn't work in ex roulette if the healer is backing them up.Both dungeons can be tanked by overgeared dps way too easily.I've seen it first hand when dps pulled before me every time and when i eventually got annoyed and stoped tanking the dps did the job fine because they had healer friend backing them up.Unless the healer is on your side and lets them eat dirt teaching dps a lesson for rush pulling doesn't work.And a lot of the time the healer won't care becuase they just want to get the ex roulette over in done with.This is the problem with having 2 boring dungeons with no gain other than eso once a day to run.

[fm_fenrir]

teaching dps a lesson

The thing is, if you're doing your role (tank) correctly, the DPS shouldn't be pulling things in the first place. You set the pace as tank, but as it turns out there actually three other people who get to vote on that pace too. Slow-rolling everything because you're new/shy and don't want to tell people that is terrible and any DPS who has the opportunity will immediately take over tanking duty from you, because it's infinitely more efficient to have a DPS pulling everything quickly than a VIT-stacked tank pulling one or two groups at a time. I had a DRK who was wearing 200 gear and slow-rolling fractal, it was torture as a DRG to see this guy pulling every group individually even though he had the HP and STR to group pull.

[Metalwrath]

The thing is, if you're doing your role (tank) correctly, the DPS shouldn't be pulling things in the first place. You set the pace as tank, but as it turns out there actually three other people who get to vote on that pace too. Slow-rolling everything because you're new/shy and don't want to tell people that is terrible and any DPS who has the opportunity will immediately take over tanking duty from you, because it's infinitely more efficient to have a DPS pulling everything quickly than a VIT-stacked tank pulling one or two groups at a time. I had a DRK who was wearing 200 gear and slow-rolling fractal, it was torture as a DRG to see this guy pulling every group individually even though he had the HP and STR to group pull.

Doing your role as a tank doesn't stop dps from being pricks.I've seen BLM nuke on pulls in Alex because they have the gear to survive a hit or 2.You can try to point blame on tank if you want but half the time these tanks aren't even pulling slow.It's just arrogant dps trying to force speed run on that healer with low mp or other dps and tank with low tp.Play tank and then you'll understand.

[Sayora]

I like to do bigger pulls as a tank, but I'll slow down if the healer can't handle it. If the DPS decides to pull on their own though I won't help them. If you want to go faster than say something.

As a DPS or Healer, I don't mind if a tank does smaller pulls even if they're geared. What bothers me is if they stand around for no reason before a boss for a solid 15-30 seconds. The one pull I won't do is that whole hallway after the first boss in Fractal, the one with the three mobs that have AoEs that need to be interrupted. That pull is a pain in that ass to me in DF.

[Februs]

As a DPS or Healer, I don't mind if a tank does smaller pulls even if they're geared. What bothers me is if they stand around for no reason before a boss for a solid 15-30 seconds. The one pull I won't do is that whole hallway after the first boss in Fractal, the one with the three mobs that have AoEs that need to be interrupted. That pull is a pain in that ass to me in DF.

When I run as Dps, I find it rage inducing to have a Tank who full stops before every boss or pull. I never say anything and try my best not to run ahead (sometimes they stop so suddenly that I get a few steps ahead of them and whoops...) because I know that everyone tanks at their own pace, but I seriously do not understand why some Tanks seem to have to stop and think for a full minute before they muster up the courage to start the fight. What the heck is the hold up??

Honestly, my best guess is that they're not real Tanks. I know that's gonna sound harsh, but there is a clear difference between people who Main Tank and people who just do it for ques or dabble in tanking. The main thing is the level of confidence. I know my moves inside and out. I know what kind of aggro I can manage, and I know how to best mitigate my incoming dmg (including by type) to make the healer's life easier. I also know every dungeon in the game front to back (I kinda wish there were mirrored or inverse versions of dungeons, actually). Part-time Tanks don't, and it shows most in how they hesitate.

I agree with that Fractal pull, too. I've only met one DF healer who could successfully heal that pull, even with HG. I'm sure that will change when the majority of the players are in antiquated or higher gear levels, but for now it's a no go unless the healer specifies that they can do it.