How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Thendiel]

Hey would you be able to post these gear sets on the OP? That way when/if my group ever gets to A4 it'll be there for quick reference and I don't have to go digging through the pages

Done. I've thrown up three of the best options we've been discussing, since there doesn't seem to be one universally-acknowledged BiS set at this point.

aight having too much skillspeed isn't as detrimental in raid environment as dummy since I don't think there's any fight where you're using optimum 3 laser/min timings

i got 711 skillspeed on my current set and I don't notice my self losing lasers due to skillspeed since we're inherently delaying them for mechanics

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RL4B

i don't really hit anything from the front that much in a4s so I might just stick with the 639 set but I'll probably go for the high crit low det set first as I prefer more skillspeed as a buffer for things and 650 sounds more legit to me than 604.

Point taken. Sounds like this is the consensus. I've included Sunny's 697 Skill Speed BiS arrangement up on the main page.

For the record, though, I'd still recommend against 660+ Skill Speed in A1S, since passing this threshold should definitely screw up one's Geirskogul management at some point before the first jump. That said, it should be a total non-issue for A2S-A4S.

Maybe this thread could also cover somewhere how to be the best pvp dragoon you could be?

It would be nice to see, but the DRG threads and guides so far have all focused very overwhelmingly on PvE content. (I, for one, am a complete PvP scrub.) If someone wants to cover PvP, I won't stop them, and I'll add content to the main pages if people like certain bits of input/advice enough.

[Greyfrost]

As for how the universally-accepted BiS, I won't think there'll be any since it'll be based on player's preference, seeing how we have 3 (Or more) as of now, it just shows that the BiS for each players are different imo.

And for myself, I'm slightly leaning towards either Yan's High-SS set or Dervy's "Balanced" set.

Simply because it got the necessary accuracy to beat contents, and also passing the minimum SS numbers needed to get the GCD to maximize rotation, the crits aren't falling too hard, and as for DET... Well, I don't really get how this works now.

Until we can get a set that can give us a reliable CHR percentage, e.g 35%+, I personally don't think going for more CHR and sacrificing SS/DET is justified, weights aside.

Again, this is just a personal opinion.
(I hate RNG ;_; )

Is there any calculation for level 60 DRG about CHR/CDM? i.e. Having xxx CRIT gives xx% CHR and xx% CDM

[JackFross]

From fiddling with it a bit, I found this trend (sorta)
100 crit = ~2.331% crit rate/crit damage

600 crit is ~11% crit rate/151% crit damage, 700 crit is ~13% crit rate/153% crit damage, 800 crit is ~15% crit rate/155% crit damage.
900 crit jumps to ~18%, 1000 crit hits 20%.

It's approximate because it's rounded a bit (it's like 2.3310023 so 2.331 is pretty accurate) and based on the calculations in the OP posts which may or may not be 100% accurate to how things actually work out. I don't personally know how those calculations were derived or discovered, so I'm merely using them and saying "I don't know how accurate or inaccurate these numbers are."

But yeah. Calculations can be found in the Number Crunching part of the OP.

(Which brings up that Then~ you should probably update the links in the OP to link to the pieces of this thread rather than linking to the old one)

[Greyfrost]

snip

I'm sorry I missed that.

Thanks for pointing that out Jack, although... I guess I'm just dumb but I don't know how to use the model in the OP to calculate the actual percentage or multiplier lol, for example:

I have 500 CRT, that means,

((500-354)/(858*5))+0.05

= (146/4290)+0.05

= 0.034032 + 0.05

= 0.084032

If the number 1 is 100% percentage, that means, this is close to 8.4% CHR?

That's quite low, it seems like CHR won't be able to reach numbers I'll be comfortable to invest in it while sacrificing other stats.

[SunnyHirose]

Yes, 1 represents 100% chance. In the formal study of probability, it is more convenient to do it that way since you're usually multiplying it with or adding it to other things willy-nilly.

I came up with the crit chance formula listed in the OP. I'm convinced that it's fairly correct, as it's been verified for many values of crit at levels 50, 53, and 60 (especially 60, where people had shared their results point by point!). If the crit multiplier formula isn't directly based on it, I'd be surprised, because when people have tested it, it has appeared to be a linear relation with the same slope as the crit chance formula.

Those two formulas are, more or less, the only ones I'm satisfied with. Skill speed can be approximated just fine, but has proven difficult to nail down perfectly. It's not just that; I haven't come across sufficiently thorough point by point tests (especially with spell casts and GL/Huton)--and it's no wonder, since collecting this info is a pain! I'm approaching a point, gear-wise, where I might be able to to test the DoT potency buff from skill speed, but that's even more of a pain to test. And of course, the damage formulas have proven to be a tricky beast to nail down, and perhaps always will.

We do know these formulas with enough accuracy to declare crit to be the king of secondaries. You generally want a proper balance for the best damage, though. The 2.4-2.55 zero skill-speed BiS was kind of a fluke....

[Greyfrost]

On a side note, since I haven't started raiding savage (will be, soon) , can I start spending Eso on other jobs?

Seeing as I already have, Eso weapon, chest, pants, belt, 1 ring. Or do I need more?

Contemplating this for a bit, since none of the current BiS Setups are composed of only 1 set, all of them are mixed i210 gordian/dragonlancer's.

Just need to clarify this for a bit since... I think if we were to go full Dragonlancer's... Then the stats will be messed up?

[rickyguo]

Point taken. Sounds like this is the consensus. I've included Sunny's 697 Skill Speed BiS arrangement up on the main page.

For the record, though, I'd still recommend against 660+ Skill Speed in A1S, since passing this threshold should definitely screw up one's Geirskogul management at some point before the first jump. That said, it should be a total non-issue for A2S-A4S.

pretty sure that his 697 skillspeed set isn't an actual thing

take the low ss set and swap the weapon to brionic and I think you have the best set via stat weight and it's probably more legit as you trade like 50 skillspeed 10 useless acc for 60 det

[SunnyHirose]

Considering I hardly believe the formulas that pointed at it, yeah. Nothing is really a thing until someone actually has the set and tests it rigorously (which, thanks to the new drop system, is no longer confined to a few people with lucky drops... but is instead confined to a very small number of raiders ._.;; ). I'm personally shooting for the 777 crit set because muh TP management

[Aiurily]

realistically are the situations where you drop uptime for mechanics/aoe dodging and end up risking geir salvaged by high skill speed or not

because even at 2.41 (580-590 or so) optimal 3 geir/min is possible, if just a bit tight. so yes disconnecting for an aoe or a mechanic will make you lose 3 lasers if its at a bad timing; but would this not be the same at 650+ sksp as well? that 0.02s difference spread over a minute i don't feel is enough to make a difference. with 25 skills over a minute, that's 0.50s extra; is that really enough to salvage 3 geir/minute when you have to dodge an aoe or do a mechanic (or get done by a mechanic, cough quarantine/ferrofluid cough). even then it's probably closer to 0.38-0.40s extra time, since typically the last 4-5 GCDs before BoTD refresh, you aren't worrying about the timer anymore anyway

[JackFross]

On a side note, since I haven't started raiding savage (will be, soon) , can I start spending Eso on other jobs??

If you're gonna be raiding soon, start stockpiling Eso. You have all the big non-weapon pieces that you'll definitely want, but keep in mind the head drops from A3, which is a long way off if you're just starting now.

First, make sure you meet acc caps for what content you'll be running. From there, my suggestion is to save up and buy stuff as you need it. If those Gordian gloves drop from A2, you'll NEED more accuracy to use them (and you want to) so that'll have to come from somewhere. Options are never a bad thing, even when you have the "best-in-slot" gear.

That said, that's all of course up to you. Depending how long it'll be before you start raiding, it might be worthwhile to just start buying for other classes and start saving when you're actually clearing stuff.