Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

[Nektulos-Tuor]

This brings up the other half of the "skill" thing. Let's remember the rules of fist:

If you are not an experienced tank who knows the ins and outs of a given dungeon, run with Vitality accessories (not necessarily full VIT, but two or three pieces to lend some wriggle room.)
If you are not an experienced tank who knows the ins and outs of a given dungeon, don't do multi-pack pulls.
If you are an experienced tank who knows the ins and outs of a dungeon, run with Strength accessories to accelerate kill times and look badass.
If you are an experienced tank who knows the ins and outs of a dungeon, do multi-pack pulls as you see fit to accelerate clear times and look badass.

If your group has absolute garbage AoE capability (like, say, PLD, double NIN and a SCH), take whatever build you want but for the love of the DarkWaradin don't pull half the sodding dungeon in one go.

Now notice how the scenario you describe doesn't jive with those guidelines? Like as not your tank was just a novice who thought he was the new hotness about to go solo Savage.

Except this has happened repeatedly and most tanks, even experienced ones just run full vitality and seem to go afk in the dungeon after they pull the room. One even had 3 counters on them. Then went to pull another room after he was dying and said: "Sorry, I usually live through that."

Then vote kicked me.

You are not every player, have you run with a healer yet or are you the tank yourself? You have to see both sides to get the full effect of the story. You yourself sound like a strength tank, so my favorite and pref to run with.

He was a ilvl 180+ novice then...

Every tank I have ever played with in my runs as a healer pull rooms regardless of how geared or class they are.

Some don't even wait for your faerie or protect. Lol.

[Erit]

-Snip-

Perhaps "experienced" wasn't quite the word I was looking for. Vitality says one of two things at this point: "I'm lazy" or "I'm scared". Once you move past "scared" and gain confidence in the dungeon and start pushing to do things better and better with every pass, that's what I meant by "experienced"; sadly, lazy can't be pushed past. It can only be dealt with and carried like a millstone tied to your genitals.

And no, I myself don't play as a healer very often. I let my girlfriend who plays right next to me and gives me constant feedback do that job, and sometimes FCmates if they feel like capping Esos. I've carried a handful underperforming DPS who could have done more damage by just sitting still and auto-attacking, and I can attest that if the healer runs out of juice on garbage, it's because either they goofed up, the tank goofed up, or the DPS forgot to equip their brains that run. Tank DPS can only accelerate matters one way or another, but a tank's itemization is not the root of the problem in the situation you described.

If they chain pull regardless of gear then... well, you can't heal stupid no matter how much MP you throw at it. I know when I first hit my experts in i147 I pulled everything one pack at a time and finished them off semi-cleanly. Then again, I come from Aion's style of tanking, which is the kind of trial-by-fire that puts the fear of god into you.

[Cooperal]

"Then went to pull another room after he was dying and said: "Sorry, I usually live through that.""

"He was a ilvl 180+ novice then..."

Woah woah woah. Hold on. This explains a ton.

You're not enabling your tanks to live through full pulls and you're still telling them to lower their health pool for increased damage. I've figured it out. You're talking as if the standard etiquette is to only pull one group of trash at a time!

You see, pulling 4 mobs is a lot different from pulling 8 mobs. If you have 8 mobs and you kill one faster, you have only cut their strength down by 1/8th. Diminishing enemy damage becomes less important compared to being able to sustain high damage.

If you have 4 mobs and kill one faster, you've cut their damage down by 1/4. Which sounds like more. BUT AoEs are only hitting half their potential per tick and cast. Which is bad for most DPS and devastating for the likes of BLM. YOU were the one demanding slow runs all along! Not the VIT-enablers!

Nobody gets to 180 without knowing just two dungeons by then. And a tank at that ilvl, if not a little sooner can quite capably withstand every full-pull available in both dungeons. I think I was like i176 as DRK when I survived my first pull from wasp-totem pull in Neverreap. You want tanks to strength-up because you're only able to tackle areas if they're already doing it the non-threatening way.

You're just asking your party to find ways to speed up only after they're playing super conservatively to account for your shortcomings.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Woah woah woah. Hold on. This explains a ton.

You're not enabling your tanks to live through full pulls and you're still telling them to lower their health pool for increased damage. I've figured it out. You're talking as if the standard etiquette is to only pull one group of trash at a time!

You see, pulling 4 mobs is a lot different from pulling 8 mobs. If you have 8 mobs and you kill one faster, you have only cut their strength down by 1/8th. Diminishing enemy damage becomes less important compared to being able to sustain high damage.

If you have 4 mobs and kill one faster, you've cut their damage down by 1/4. Which sounds like more. BUT AoEs are only hitting half their potential per tick and cast. Which is bad for most DPS and devastating for the likes of BLM. YOU were the one demanding slow runs all along! Not the VIT-enablers!

Nobody gets to 180 without knowing just two dungeons by then. And a tank at that ilvl, if not a little sooner can quite capably withstand every full-pull available in both dungeons. I think I was like i176 as DRK when I survived my first pull from wasp-totem pull in Neverreap. You want tanks to strength-up because you're only able to tackle areas if they're already doing it the non-threatening way.

You're just asking your party to find ways to speed up after your own shortcomings have been taken into account.

Yes, to increase overall sustain of the group. When you full pull with a new healer your healing them just fine by going b*lls to the walls. However, you run out of stamina quickly, you don't have the gear to sustain that pull for very long. Especially with bloated HP tank.

[Ashkendor]

What usually happens is the fight takes too long.

If the fight's taking too long that is not the tank's fault. Put the blame where it belongs - with the DPS.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

If the fight's taking too long that is not the tank's fault. Put the blame where it belongs - with the DPS.

They are intentionally making it harder on the healer of the party. Which is "bad".

[Senliten]

Tanks *besides paladin since i've never played one* are one of the highest AOE damage jobs in the game. So them doing 50% less damage is their fault.

o lawld, i hope no one takes you serious after this.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

o lawld, i hope no one takes you serious after this.

When you apply damage bonuses to having that extra 200-250 strength and the fact that for example Warriors can use all their damage buffs and then overpower for ridiculous amounts of damage in AOE then you really should see it. Especially with Vengeance up the mobs literally melt.

Strength improves the tanks self-healing and sustain through damage and killing things faster.

[Ashkendor]

Tanks *besides paladin since i've never played one* are one of the highest AOE damage jobs in the game. So them doing 50% less damage is their fault.



They are intentionally making it harder on the healer of the party. Which is "bad".

[bounddreamer]

/thread

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