"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Purrfectstorm]

Someone wants a kick because too many new people.

I think SE deserves some of the blame for this; many duties have mechanics that are too punishing or hard to learn for new people and groups that are made up of mostly new people will be destined to wipe. If it's is a new duty with hard mechanics, then the person who solo DFs into it has unreasonable expectations (not to have new people) but if it's an older duty that is frequently cleared in DF because most of the community understands the mechanics at that point, then you can't really blame the person for wanting to leave and try their luck with another DF group. Many new players simply do not understand/accept that their lack of knowledge will doom everyone else. I'd suggest they watch a video but every time that can of worms gets opened, the baddies that forget this is a team game go nuts.

Get rid of one, and flood gates open for another. If we had no penalties, people would just keep on fishing and fishin for whatever dungeon tehy want through roulette. No leafers would ever get tam-tara done if people could bail out immediately without a penalty.

Well I didn't say "no penalties," I said "no penalty timers;" there are other ways to prevent players fishing for specific duties. For example, have roulette bonuses disappear after entering a duty rather than on completion. This idea isn't perfect (it's just a quick brainstorm anyway), but I think the possible consequences (like losing a bonus due to a votekick or DC) are less of a downside than disabling one's ability to play at all.

We pay to play the game in order to have fun but penalty timers say that if we're not having fun, we ought not to leave, and if we do leave, then we can't play/have fun for 30 more minutes. At the extreme end of the scale, where this occurs frequently and/or the penalty timer increases, people will just quit paying/playing the game altogether. Some probably already have. I know any time I am verbally abused, leave a party, and then to add insult to injury, I am penalized for it, I think about playing something with rules that make a bit more sense.

And again, it's not forcing you to stay in the party. Why do people feel so inclined that they're forced to stay, when they can straight up leave with a 30 minute timer?

Forcing: power to influence, affect, or control. A penalty timer exists precisely to influence player behavior. Sure, a person can leave a duty, disobey a rule or law, stand up to a bully, etc. People don't always do what they want to do because the external influences are too strong (i.e. forcing them). People shouldn't always do what they want to do (but that's another story).

However, since FFXIV is a game people should mostly get to do what they want to do (within reason). We can debate whether or not players should get to leave a duty without penalty but since it's just a matter of opinion, neither of us can be "wrong." But there are right or wrong business decisions for SE to make and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that it would make for a better game to do away with penalty timers. I'm not personally affected by this very much but when I am, it really annoys me ("Why do I have to take a penalty because others were jerks to me?").

Whenever I go play another game for a 30 min period of time that I can't play FFXIV, I'm more likely to just continue playing that other game. That seems like the wrong type of influence for SE to exert.

[Bhuni]

If you're wiping due to dps checks in titan HM at this point of the game (espif it's your roulette), you have more problems at present than just the monk.

True indeed, but tolerating something such as that for example is one of the many reasons why NA/EU DF is hardly ever a pleasant experience, regardless of what you're running.
You carry someone through X and they'll expect an easy ride with Y, but the people in Y may not be able to make up for this persons lack of gear,skill etc like the folk in X did.

[LunaHoshino]

And now we're left with a problem of getting certain duties completed for leafers or people who legitmately need it. Ones like Chysyallis, SoF and the lowbie trio.

I got Chrysalis twice and Steps once in trial roulette in the past week. There were no mysterious disconnects or people leaving or requesting kicks and we one-shot the fights every time. I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people who hate those fights enough to want to leave them rather than just do them and get them over with.

[RiceisNice]

True indeed, but tolerating something such as that for example is one of the many reasons why NA/EU DF is hardly ever a pleasant experience, regardless of what you're running.
You carry someone through X and they'll expect an easy ride with Y, but the people in Y may not be able to make up for this persons lack of gear,skill etc like the folk in X did.

That sounds more like DF not being your cup of tea in general.

I got Chrysalis twice and Steps once in trial roulette in the past week. There were no mysterious disconnects or people leaving or requesting kicks and we one-shot the fights every time. I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people who hate those fights enough to want to leave them rather than just do them and get them over with.

My reply was in the context of there was no penalty for leaving. It's precisely those 30 minute penalties why some people will (begrudgingly) stay in a trial roulette that's not to their liking.

[LunaHoshino]

My reply was in the context of there was no penalty for leaving. It's precisely those 30 minute penalties why some people will (begrudgingly) stay in a trial roulette that's not to their liking.

In my experience, if people want to leave trial roulette, they'll just DC because they know the trial will only take a few minutes and then they can just log back on. Having a penalty does nothing to stop them from doing that, and you can't very well report someone for that as it's entirely possible that the DC is legit (I've had a party member DC at the start of a dungeon only to return a minute or two later and apologize for getting 90ked).

Honestly, I think the best solution would be to just allow people to blacklist 2-3 dungeons/trials that they absolutely do not want to do. That way they won't even get dumped into them in the first place and none of this would be an issue.

[myahele]

I think penalties for being vote kicked multiple times in a day will eventually be implemented in game. After All, many demanded there be a way to prevent in progess fishers, so they did the 3 strikes rule and the 30 min penalty. Players demanded a way to not get the same person that's been vote kicked and a few weeks ago SE implemented a system just for that.

Not perfect, but nobody has been complaining about it.

I think eventually there'll be a DF penalty for being vote-kicked too many times in a single day

[Mykll]

Well I didn't say "no penalties," I said "no penalty timers;" there are other ways to prevent players fishing for specific duties. For example, have roulette bonuses disappear after entering a duty rather than on completion. This idea isn't perfect (it's just a quick brainstorm anyway), but I think the possible consequences (like losing a bonus due to a votekick or DC) are less of a downside than disabling one's ability to play at all.

I'll go back to my prior idea. When you roll a Roulette, whatever dungeon or trial or whatever you get, the first time that day, you are stuck with for that day's bonus. No penalties for being kicked or DC. Almost completely eliminates the initial "I don't like this so I'll leave" part. They can forego their bonus for the day by not doing that dungeon that day, but they not getting another dungeon for that specific Roulette. If you get kicked, or DC, or whatever, next time that same day you queue up for the same Roulette, you are only queuing up for that single specific dungeon. Who knows how long of a wait that may be. But at least you won't lose your day's bonus, unless you choose to not get it.

[Stormrider]

Mostly Reasonable person

I am not sure if you run with most of the same people. But you seem to have a little bit of a dc between the type of general population in roulette. While I will not go so far as to say, wretched hive of scum and villainy. It can be pretty close. So let say Neverreap and Fractal should take between 25-30 mins. Most 51-60 also in the 25-30 range. The amount of hate, ridicule and disgust I have seen leveled at people for finishing in 31 mins. There are enough bad apples on a regular basis penalties need to be in place and people need to except the actions they take.

Your reasons are very valid, but we can not trust enough of the population to act in a decent manor. S E also says we don't allow tells in dungeon due to what we may believe lead to griefing. If that is the true reason I am not sure but it is what they put out. So players can't be trusted to behave so we have penalties.

[Assirra]

Your reasons are very valid, but we can not trust enough of the population to act in a decent manor. S E also says we don't allow tells in dungeon due to what we may believe lead to griefing. If that is the true reason I am not sure but it is what they put out. So players can't be trusted to behave so we have penalties.

No offense to you, but this attitude is one day going to remove chat in duty finder because it could potentially be used as abuse.

The whole "we need to remove everything that can possibly be harmful" never works since true assholes will always find a way and in the meantime you remove viable info/tools.
The amount of times i wanted to whisper someone in a dungeon annoys me.

[Purrfectstorm]

I am not sure if you run with most of the same people. But you seem to have a little bit of a dc between the type of general population in roulette. While I will not go so far as to say, wretched hive of scum and villainy. It can be pretty close. So let say Neverreap and Fractal should take between 25-30 mins. Most 51-60 also in the 25-30 range. The amount of hate, ridicule and disgust I have seen leveled at people for finishing in 31 mins. There are enough bad apples on a regular basis penalties need to be in place and people need to except the actions they take.

Your reasons are very valid, but we can not trust enough of the population to act in a decent manor. S E also says we don't allow tells in dungeon due to what we may believe lead to griefing. If that is the true reason I am not sure but it is what they put out. So players can't be trusted to behave so we have penalties.

I don't think I have a disconnect at all. I've been an avid player of this game since phase 3 beta and I've seen a ton of jerk players, but why anyone would want to encourage them to continue a duty with everyone else is beyond me. If they're going to be rude because a run takes an extra minute then why not votekick them or let them leave so you can get someone who might be a bit more chill about the run time? If it's that hard to find a pleasant replacement then we should all find a different game anyway.

I think a lot of the problems this community has come from not embracing the team nature of this game. Instead both sides of issues demonize each other. For instance, on this votekick issue there is one side that is like "There are jerk players and they will abandon the group in a duty and leave the rest of us in a bind, maybe because we don't know the fight or are a bit slow to clear" and the other side is like "I've run this duty 135353538398 times and want it to go as quickly as possible so I can collect my reward and move on to more fun things."

See neither side is wrong; the only thing wrong is that each side fails to acknowledge that each position is a perfectly legitimate position to hold.