"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Mykll]

I think a lot of the problems this community has come from not embracing the team nature of this game. Instead both sides of issues demonize each other. For instance, on this votekick issue there is one side that is like "There are jerk players and they will abandon the group in a duty and leave the rest of us in a bind, maybe because we don't know the fight or are a bit slow to clear" and the other side is like "I've run this duty 135353538398 times and want it to go as quickly as possible so I can collect my reward and move on to more fun things."

See neither side is wrong; the only thing wrong is that each side fails to acknowledge that each position is a perfectly legitimate position to hold.

Again I still think that this really started with people abandoning a duty as soon as they entered, either not liking the duty itself or the party members. Them doing that is not embracing the team nature of this game.

If they've run a specific duty a million times, and want a fast run, they need to set up a PF for it. All them Brayflox HM PF speed runs. The problem with using DF (which is the same as using PF, except PF you can make the rules) is that you are encountering random people for a specific duty. The problem with Roulette, is that you ALSO get a random duty added on top of random people. If you get stuck with a duty and want your random duty reward, one side is saying don't bail, that is what RNG gave you, run it and get your reward.

Bailing as soon as you enter, or requesting a kick, has a completely different feel than having 20 minutes left and you just are nowhere near the final boss.

[Sebazy]

Can confirm the above, I know a few people who have gotten banned for this.

Whilst personally I wouldn't report someone if they have a reasonably fair reason (Aka their static needs them), if they simply don't like the dungeon or comp we got dealt then that's tough. Give the group a chance before crying/whining pls <3

[Onebie]

If it is a tank or healer then, well bad luck. If it is a dps we just go to the end boss if he starts coming with us we kick him right before the end so he gets our full pentalty
Got some douche in Outer Castrum, was a tank who just logged out. As we reached the last boss he tried to attack him but we ran out of the arena and then he left. That was an awsome feeling!

[LineageRazor]

I got Chrysalis twice and Steps once in trial roulette in the past week. There were no mysterious disconnects or people leaving or requesting kicks and we one-shot the fights every time. I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people who hate those fights enough to want to leave them rather than just do them and get them over with.

I typically sign up for Trial Roulette as PLD or WHM, with the "join-in-progress" box checked. It's not uncommon for me to wind up in a trial in progress - and almost every time I do, it's Chrysalis, Steps of Faith, or Limitless Blue, all with less than five minutes elapsed on the clock. While we usually one-shot these trials in short order, it's clear they have a stigma that causes tanks and healers to bail-on-entry with far more frequency than normal. These are folks who have had such a nasty history with these trials that they FULLY EXPECT the instance to take longer than the 30-minute penalty they've chosen to embrace.

If they've run a specific duty a million times, and want a fast run, they need to set up a PF for it.

This really isn't an acceptable answer because PF is not a fast run. Well, the run itself might be fast, but waiting for a party to get together starts to take on DPS-queue levels of delay. Tanks and healers will use Duty Finder to enter runs because they pretty much enter the dungeon as soon as they decide they want to do a dungeon, with little or no delay. This is all right; Tanks and healers are in relatively short supply, so perks like this encourage other folks to take on these stressful and needed roles.

Problems only start to arise when those tanks and healers start to feel a sense of entitlement, that they should not only be able to get into instances fast, but that they should have the right to choose only the quickest and most desireable instances. Back before the abandonment penalty, there were many tanks and healers who would do just that. Got into an undesireable instance? No problem, just pop out and queue up again until you get the instance you want. The folks you left behind who now might wind up waiting thirty minutes for a replacement, before eventually giving up and requeueing? Screw them.

With the penalty, tanks and healers have to sincerely hate the instance they've wound up in. They can't just drop out on a whim and queue up again. This is as it should be. The fact that folks are trying to circumvent this penalty through the vote kick system is a clear abuse of the vote kick system, and should be discouraged. I would add a 30-minute penalty to being vote-kicked, as well. This would unfairly penalize some innocents, I'm aware, but it would discourage this kind of behavior.

When you sign up for Roulette, understand that it's ROULETTE. You don't know what you're going to get - it could be good or bad. When you wind up with the bad, stop trying to weasel out of it; it's just the hand you were dealt. It's not as though you're being pointlessly tortured, either - your presence in that instance is helping others to complete it, which is the whole point of why roulettes were added in the first place. And, in the end, if the bad is just TOO bad for you to stomach, well, that's why you still have the option to drop out and accept your 30 minute penalty. No one's forcing you to stay.

[Ranzan]

A few months ago I would agree in not kicking but lately(especially after HW launch) I've been getting parties on my healer or tank where we are constantly wiping. I try to vote abandon but it gets rejected I'm going to ask for me to be kick. Why should we stay if there isn't a chance of winning?

[Syrehn]

A few months ago I would agree in not kicking but lately(especially after HW launch) I've been getting parties on my healer or tank where we are constantly wiping. I try to vote abandon but it gets rejected I'm going to ask for me to be kick. Why should we stay if there isn't a chance of winning?

If you feel your group is that horrible in roulette and the rest of the team are not willing to vote abandon for w/e reason you don't have to stay if you feel there is no chance of winning. You have the option to leave the group at any time of your own free will. What you're describing, if a player in that scenario asks for a kick, is still an attempt to circumvent the duty finder penalty timer by misusing the vote kick feature and it can have negative impacts on the rest of the party.

[Purrfectstorm]

It makes just as much sense to tell people that don't want speedruns to use PF as it does to tell people that want speedruns to use PF. Using DF in either case, players risk being grouped with others with a different play-style. Some people are good about adapting to this (tanks will go slower or others will go faster, for example), but some people don't want to adapt.

It doesn't matter whether people want to speedrun, not speedrun, adapt, or not adapt, these are just play-style differences and it doesn't automatically make someone a jerk because they have a different play-style than yours. I don't understand why so many people want to penalize the latter people even if the penalties also hit some of the former. Besides, as I have been saying, there are other ways of dealing with people leaving an instance right off than a penalty timer (like their losing their roulette bonus).

Penalty timers prevent players from playing the majority of the game (since the majority is instanced) and I don't think it makes sense from a business standpoint to discourage players from playing your game for chunks of time. Not only that, but it's questionable how much penalty timers even do the job they're intended to do. I would absolutely still leave right away, even as a DPS, if I got some impression that I was in for a miserable experience (which almost never happens btw). As a sidenote, I think DPS queues are really overestimated; I switched from main tank to main DPS at HW release and my queues have been 5-10 min longer AT MOST.

As for people asking for votekick, I have never had that happen in the first 5 min of a dungeon, ever. If someone asks 20 min in to be vote kicked, they probably aren't asking because they don't like the duty. I know it all comes down to personal preference, but I'd kick someone if they didn't at any time want to be there. Then I'd just ask someone from my FC or LS if they could join in progress to help me out. Building connections with other people seems like a better solution to me for dealing with people who leave or want to leave a duty than resorting to penalty timers.

[Ranzan]

snip

so it ok to be penalize because the party is selfish and too stubborn to see they can't stop wiping? That's why I feel you should be able to vote kick ur self or when vote abandon happens the people who voted to leave gets leave and the rest stay.

[Wolf_Gang]

How about having a kick with a harassment reason impose a penalty on them.

[RiceisNice]

so it ok to be penalize because the party is selfish and too stubborn to see they can't stop wiping? That's why I feel you should be able to vote kick ur self or when vote abandon happens the people who voted to leave gets leave and the rest stay.

The alternative is that people will leave an instance immediately without a penalty because they got the dungeon they don't like. From a tank and healer perspective, this means nothing to them since their queues are incredibly short, while leafers will be stuck waiting for their story mode dungeons to pop, or DPS being stuck with longer queues.