Why not just make everyone a DPS?

[Iromi]

No thanks...heh, if anything we need more variety, IMHO. I'd like to see a support job eventually...

[Yorumi]

emmm....wut? I never understood players like you, no offence but what script? the so called "ROTATIONS" are mathematical combinations made for us the player, Yes is the probably maximum dps combination to maximize your abilities,

I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience with MMO combat systems and class design because you don't seem to understand the basic difference between a fix rotation and a priority system. Fixed rotations means you always know what your next skill is. There is some minor leeway in that fight mechanics can occasionally screw up a rotation and cause you to start over but the rotation is basically always skill 1, skill 2, skill 3....skill n, repeat. That's what virtually every dps and tank does in this game.

A priority system means your next skill is the highest priority skill that's come off cooldown based on the current situation and resources available. In it's simplest form skill 1 has top priority, skill 2 is next priority, skill 3 is lowest priority. If you just did skill 3 and skill 1 and 2 are off cooldown then your action is skill 1. However, if you just did skill 3 and skill 1 is still on cooldown then your next action is skill 2. The priorities can shift with the flow of battle too including how your resource pool is doing.

As for synchronization being hard, it's only "hard" because they make failure to play simon says instant fail. Having people react to the flow of battle is much more challenging than rote memorization.

[Ercapote]

good reasoning imo.

couldn't agree more.

[Yorumi]

Priority systems become just as drab as rotations in the same amount of time - at least to me. Most of WoW's classes work on a priority system rather than strict rotations...and they have literally the most boring classes in the world to play right now. Think Ret Pally *shiver*. I thought BRDs and MCHs have priority systems anyway? So there are options.

Perhaps they just failed to make fun classes I don't have experience with them. As I said priority isn't mind blowing by any means, but you can't tell me with proper design it's more fun to repeat 1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3... than having to actually consider what your next action is going to be. Mch and brd work more on rng than priority, which is still better than fixed. Smn is probably the closest thing to priority in this game and that barely scratches the surface of what could be done.

[Dante_V]

Fun is subjective and priority vs rotation becomes a semantic argument. Personally I think a job like Ninja or DRk is more fun than DRG or Pally. But to each their own. People tout "fun" like it's some objective truth, it isn't.

[RapBreon]

Perhaps they just failed to make fun classes I don't have experience with them. As I said priority isn't mind blowing by any means, but you can't tell me with proper design it's more fun to repeat 1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3... than having to actually consider what your next action is going to be. Mch and brd work more on rng than priority, which is still better than fixed. Smn is probably the closest thing to priority in this game and that barely scratches the surface of what could be done.

You don't consider your next move after a bit of time spent. It's muscle memory. I've played both complex and simple priority based classes. The difference is it takes longer to burn the rhythm of your class into your head. I used to have to consider my oGCDs as a Dragoon, played it for a bit, now I do it as a pure reaction. I used to 'manage' Blood of the Dragoon. I don't even do that anymore, I know exactly where each Geirskogul is going.

It's actually why I like positionals in this game a lot, melee is entirely unique in this game on that point (well besides Rogue archetypes, but always behind is a given). Taking a chance for more potency and chasing his ass while they spin is fun. The actual rotation itself means not much to me beyond lining up that 'wombo combo' of big numbers.

Also I can tell you that! People are different! Some find the reliability of a pattern engaging and rewarding when they master said pattern. Because then you can transpose your class' pattern onto the boss', so you know what you're doing - exactly - and when. It's actually one of the reasons I find raiding in this game so enjoyable, you eventually get it down to a damn science. You assume everyone thinks like you!

[Ercapote]

good point but...

I know what a rotation and a priority means, but u didn't understand what I tried to say with the rotation been something made for us, there's not a rule that says when we have to use our abilities, we are just using a combination that is the most optimized because internet says so, In a way they are all a mix of priority and rotation, but I don't find challenging priority system Is bland and simple no skill involve in it if a ROTATION is a "simoom says" then a Priority is a simple "guacamole" only skill involve is reaction, that in which case I find harder a reaction to the rotation when involves fixing that rotation with the current state of the battle since it's a more constant event rather than waiting for a CD.

people HAVE to react to the flow of the battle in other to beat it, do you know when the big wave is gonna hit? yes. doe sit ensure that everyone will now how to overcome that way to prevent a wipe? no, knowing when the hit is coming doesn't make the fight any easier, players need to be on a high level of concentration and muscle memory to perfectly overcome it, which is harder than just tunnel vision and react fast when something pop, if that was the case then the harderst game is COD and we all know how even a 8 year old can play that, put a 8 year old playing t9 see how well it goes.

[Yorumi]

which is harder than just tunnel vision and react fast when something pop, if that was the case then the harderst game is COD and we all know how even a 8 year old can play that, put a 8 year old playing t9 see how well it goes.

I still don't think you're really understanding what I'm saying. I don't mean just reacting to telegraphed aoes and such. I don't expect tunnel vision and the ignoring of the rest of the raid. The thing is that's kind of what happens right now. In a fight right now, do I care all that much what anyone else is doing during the fight? No. All that really matters is that I perform my job and if someone else screws up, well they caused the wipe not me. In other words tunnel vision. Who in the party ever cares about what anyone else is doing? There's nothing at all organic in these fights which means all you really need to do is tunnel vision focus on your given task.

[Reynhart]

Going on record to say that is my actual least favorite fight in the game. I'd rather eat rusty nails than do that boring piece of donkey's ass.

Cerberus, too ?

So it would automatically favour a PLD because they can do something other than DPS (a DRK and WAR literally can not doing anything but use their attack skills).

Example ?

[Izsha]

They would need to redesign tanking all together. Mitigation is "hit this button before this attack". Mitigation isn't hard or interesting in any way in this game. Push button, take less damage. It's exceedingly rudimentary. There's no way to "test" tanks in any meaningful way because there is no meaningful active way to mitigate damage. The only tank stat is hp. So you litterally gain no actual mitigation by playing turtle. More hp doesn't reduce the amount of heals you need.

Ironically it's the reason I like war. They have a mitigation resource to actively manage (wrath). It makes it far more engaging than push button, mitigate damge style of pld. (I haven't messed with dark much but the mp management sounds interesting for the same reason). That's why I still say war is the best designed tank. Managing resources is what makes jobs interesting otherwise they fall prey to a rotation. And there is almost no practical difference between a rotation and a priority system. They both end up brain dead ways to play. Actively managing a resource with tradeoffs gives you DECISIONS to make. If I do X now I can't do Y later. Tradeoffs are what make interesting gameplay. Rotations and priority systems are just reactions. There's no thinking involved with either. Prior is skill 1 then 2 then 3. I just did 1, 2 is still up therefore the next thing is 3. That's not 'thinking' that's reacting. There's no decision without tradeoff. "If I use infuriate to get 1 mire fell cleave under zerk now, will I need to for ib the tank buster in 40 sec? Can I afford to pop vengence just for a stack now and give it up for the next 2 min? When an choice to do an action costs you in some other way down the road you have to think ahead and weigh the pros and cons. Rotations and prios are just synonyms for pattern gameplay.