"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Nestama]

"crap I didn't realize it was this time, can you kick me out of party because I need to pick my mom up from the airport" are actual reasons.

Couldn't they just leave and accept the penalty? I mean, their mum will most likely want to chat or something and depending on how far the airport is, it could be long enough for the penalty to wear off when they come back :I

[Mirakell]

Maybe I'm too nice - but if I sign up to a dgn I'm there for the long run - unless someone kicks me or we're doing so badly that a vote abandon happens.

For example - last night I was suppose to run stone vigil hard (as I'm still working on my bard's zodiac). Instead I accidentally qued into Stone Vigil NM - didn't notice till I was inside the dgn - and I ran it with the party anyways as I didn't want to leave them without a healer. It took us almost an hour to clear due to the tank wishing to get his exp - which the rest of us (all lv60s) didn't mind, so the 30mins penalty would have been better.

I donno - I just like helping out the community in anyways I can. If you ask to be kicked I will ignore you. If you sit there doing nothing to be kicked - then I'll walk over and sit next to you until you leave >.> If you don't wanna stay then leave and take a break for 30mins or do crafts/hunts or something >.>

[Kallera]

I agree with the op, it's an inconsiderate thing to ask to be kicked, even if you are dps.

[Kayote]

Id do it for shitty teams or ones with aholes in them, not that I actually ask for it but d/c or AFK usually works. I hardly ever want to just drop a group for no reason but ill be damned if im going to take another penalty, on top of an already long queue time just because someone else is being an ass.

P.S: Its very very rare. Done it maybe a handful of times since 2003.

[RiceisNice]

Nope, I can agree with "Myself and person don't get along, kick me so they can have their run in peace please" or "crap I didn't realize it was this time, can you kick me out of party because I need to pick my mom up from the airport" are actual reasons. It's when there's tantrums and whining I roll my eyes at.

Those two are incredibly bad reasons to have someone use up their vote kick.

"I don't like playing with you, use your kick allowance to get rid of me so I can requeue up for something else. I may also send your party on limo because I may be the tank or healer for your group too."

And if you have to do something like...picking up your mom at the airport, I'm pretty sure that will take you more than 30 minutes anyway and the penalty would not even be an issue. I'm also more concerned on the fact that they had that trouble of keeping track of time for something as important as picking up a relative from the airport.

[Naliee]

While it is polite to ask to be kicked, no.

Most of the times people ask to be kicked;
1. after few wipes, they refuse to play cause party isn't going anywhere
2. they have REAL LIFE stuff to do!
3. drama with party member

So no, I'm not using my 4hr cd kick on you even if you ask for it. I'm saving it for trolls, RMTs and AFKs. Plus report them after kick.

[Alberel]

People keep talking as if they votekick people from dungeons all the time. How often does that actually happen in reality? In my entire year of playing and running daily roulettes, I've had to kick a troll from a dungeon run all of maybe three times. It's rare that I use a votekick twice in a month, let alone twice in a single day.

I think the fact that people are saying "BUT WHAT IF I NEED TO USE A VOTEKICK IN THE NEXT FOUR HOURS" says way more about them than it does about someone making a polite request to be kicked.

Right, so reserving the right to use the votekick only for what it is designed to be used for (kicking trolls or disconnected players) somehow reflects badly on me? I don't use votekick often, and I'd rather keep it that way. The tool is there to be used as a safety net for when you actually need it (hence the cooldown) and I'd simply rather not waste it on a selfish player trying to dodge the penalty for quitting.

If a player joins a group and then decides they have to leave for some reason they should eat the penalty. If something in IRL came up then the penalty doesn't matter because they'll be away from the game for a little while. If they don't think they're good enough for the content then they should have prepared better and the penalty will ensure they do so for next time. If they don't like the roulette they got or feel like the group isn't good enough for them for whatever reason then they're a selfish and impatient player who definitely should take the penalty as this was precisely why the penalty was implemented in the first place!

By kicking people who ask to be votekicked you are basically defeating the entire point of the penalty system. People are now doing it often enough that the lazy players have actually gotten used to being able to do it and they now expect to get kicked whenever they like over the smallest inconsequential things slowing down their run. It's much like giving a kid the new toy they want when they ask for it; do it often enough and they'll start to expect it every time they want something.

[Dante_V]

I don't even care. I'll vote kick them if they ask. People in this community make the biggest deals out of the most insignificant things. You want out? Cool, have a good day.

Meanwhile other people are like: "You want out?!?!?! OMG what is wrong with you you spoiled baby!"
*Goes on official forums to make thread whining about people asking to be kicked*

[Syrehn]

i've come to realize in this whole thread ppl are so stuck in their beliefs they have become a wall. not one suggestion or alternative is allowed through.

This is simply just not true. This whole thread is full of points and counterpoints; it's an open discussion. Just because many of us can counter the points for the reasons some players are using vote kick in this discussion doesn't mean we're not open to alternative suggestions or solutions.

So far throughout the thread we've seen that the reasons players list for using vote kick are:

1) Player asks for a vote kick to dodge penalty when they get into a dungeon they don't like
2) Player AFK's force a vote kick to dodge penalty when they get into a dungeon they don't like
3) Player uses a force d/c to dodge penalty when they get into a dungeon they don't like
4) Player asks for a vote kick to dodge penalty when their PVP team is losing
5) Player asks for a vote kick when they don't like the group (again dodging penalty)
6) Player asks for a vote kick due to an emergency
7) Player asks for a vote kick because they have prior obligations and didn't allow for enough time (again dodging penalty)

I'm sure there are a few more that I might have missed but these appear to be the most common. IMO none of these are worthy of someone in the party consuming their vote kick rights. In almost all the scenarios they want to be kicked to dodge the penalty to go back into other content; the penalty timer exits for a reason.


Some counter points to the above are:

1) If you don't want a penalty timer, and don't want a specific dungeon then don't queue up for a roulette. There is no reason that any party member should be consuming their vote kick on you because you don't like the dungeon. Suck it up or leave on your own. If you're going to harass the group they should be collectively reporting you.

2) If you get a dungeon you don't like and you AFK out at the start, or if the group is doing bad, to force a kick not only is that harassment to your group and they should be collectively reporting you but you're again trying to dodge the penalty timer. The group shouldn't have to use their limited vote kick on a player like this. The group refusing to do so does not make them toxic. In some cases, depending on the role who is pulling the stunt (i.e. tank/healer) it's not always faster to kick and get an instant fill. This could lead the party to have to force abandon. It's discourteous to the party.

3) The same explanation given in 2 applies to 3.

4) Honestly, I can't even find a reason that anyone would justify using their vote kick on this player. Just let them AFK and they'll get an inactive timer and the game will auto remove them.

5) If a player doesn't like the group they're in, either because they're not getting along with the other players or they don't think the run is going smoothly then, quite simply, they have the option to leave. Asking to be removed because you don't like the group is not enough reason for the other team members to use their limited vote kick so that the offending player can dodge the timer and re-queue for another group. Who's to say this person won't like the next group and ask to be kicked again. This is a way to cherry pick groups.

6) While I want to have faith that there is truly an emergency that a player needs to attend to it seems highly unlikely that any player that has an irl emergency is going to ask to be kicked because of it. They won't be worried about a penalty timer if there is a true emergency they're worried about what is going on where they are currently and are most likely just going to drop the group (getting a penalty). This feels like it could become a "go to" excuse to get a sympathy kick.

7) This just comes down to time management. Players need to be aware of how much time they have before their upcoming obligations. Don't queue up 30 minutes before your raid and expect quick runs. You could end up, as mentioned in a previous comment, with team members that are all totally new to the dungeon. The reality is that SE gave x amount of time for the entire dungeon to be completed. If you don't have the time/patience to put up with wipes/slow group for the entirety of the timer to tick down before you have to go to raid then you shouldn't be queueing up. This isn't a reason, imo, to ask for a vote kick. It leaves the current group hanging as well your raid team if the group decides to not vote kick you out; it's discourteous to both teams.

Keep in mind that those of us countering points made for using vote kick in what can be deemed an inappropriate way haven't said never, ever, ever, use vote kick on anyone who asks for it ever. There is something to be said for player courtesy and personal choice regarding using the vote kick feature. We are simply stating that each reason that has currently been given there wasn't a need to be kicked. No one is holding any player in any duty hostage by not vote kicking them out; the option to leave at any time is always there.


Some of the solutions offered have been:

A) Implement a penalty timer on players who get vote kicked.

Players who pull these Ask To Leave, AFK, Force D/C shenanigans are likely not to do it if they know that there are repercussions if they do. They're doing it now, and getting away with it, because there is no negative impact for it. When players allow this behaviour it not only affects their current group but affects the future groups of other players when the offending person keeps at it in other groups.

This could also have some negative impacts on players who get kicked unjustly, which I personally feel is probably few and far between, as well as players that have poor connections and D/C alot. Keep in mind that many parties will wait a fair amount of time for D/C'd players to return before initiating a vote kick for "Offline".

B) Implement an inactivity timer similar to PVP.

This would have to be something that ties in with combat as well otherwise the offending player could just run around in circles at the front of the duty to dodge being inactive.

C) 2 strike penalty rule for vote kick.

If you get vote kicked the first time it's like a grace period. If you get vote kicked for x reason a second time, and any time subsequently thereafter in the same day, you'll get a penalty timer.

D) Who cares, just kick and replace.

This really doesn't work as a viable solution imo because the offenders get off scot-free to keep on offending other groups.

Currently collectively reporting the offending player for harassment and vote kicking for x reason is the only way to get a new team member and the offender gets to skip off into other content as they please. If the group doesn't report the player or if a GM let's it slide with a warning, the offending player gets to keep on offending with no repercussion; this shouldn't be the case. Hence, why some of us in this thread have offered up thoughts on potential deterrents to the current system.

Some parties opt to let the offender AFK while they finish the instance and they are within their rights to do this, if they feel they can complete the duty, so they don't consume their vote kick ability.

[Mirakell]

I don't even care. I'll vote kick them if they ask. People in this community make the biggest deals out of the most insignificant things. You want out? Cool, have a good day.

Meanwhile other people are like: "You want out?!?!?! OMG what is wrong with you you spoiled baby!"
*Goes on official forums to make thread whining about people asking to be kicked*

We only get the option to kick someone once every 8 hours. You just kicked someone whos wasn't annoying. Next dgn you go into theres a troll and no one can kick him cause we're all on cooldowns for being nice and kicking the random 'nice' person who didn't wish to wait 30mins for entering an instance he didn't like/want.