"Please Kick Me..." - Just Take Your Penalty

[Malevicton]

They aren't quite the same loss, though. On the one hand you kick and wait for a replacement, on the other you wait for them to leave and then continue waiting for a replacement. And that's assuming they ever leave. They might just alt tab Netflix, or go for a walk, or try to get the group killed, etc. Reports or adding a penalty I can get on board with, but I still don't see how not kicking someone relates to those things at all. You can kick them and still report them, or kick them and support getting a penalty.

"'They're already wasting my time, why not waste their time too?' could be the general census of the other 3 players, especially if the one that's trying to cheat out is a tank." That's practically the definition of petty. If that's what the whole group wants, then fine, but I don't think it's advisable, and certainly isn't commendable.

[Raiya]

Tbh considering the toxicity of the ffxiv community in general its nearly better to just logoff till they kick you. If someones asking you to kick them its better to just do it. I myself if I get a lousy roulette in trials will usually give em one shot otherwise Ill either ask to be kicked or simply log off until they do. Like it or hate it but chalk it up to game design

[Syrehn]

Tbh considering the toxicity of the ffxiv community in general its nearly better to just logoff till they kick you. If someones asking you to kick them its better to just do it. I myself if I get a lousy roulette in trials will usually give em one shot otherwise Ill either ask to be kicked or simply log off until they do. Like it or hate it but chalk it up to game design

The words "Toxic Community" get thrown around far to much. It's not the game's fault you didn't get a duty you wanted or the run isn't going as smooth as you'd like and no one is forcing you to stay in those runs, you can gracefully bow out. After reading what you said about how you log off/afk to force a kick from your party it shows that it's not the community that's toxic but mindset's like the one you demonstrated.

Raiya I have a legitimate question for you since you're someone who admits to d/c'ing/afk'ing to force their party to kick you. Do you think you would be less likely to behave in this manner if a vote kick resulted in your character receiving a 30 minute penalty timer or equivalent repercussion?

[Raiya]

The words "Toxic Community" get thrown around far to much.

Sadly its thrown around simply because its true. Its as bad as WoW's in its own right? Why? Because people are too bloody narky for even the most reasonable of things. Take this issue for example. Someone requests to be kicked for whatever reason and all you get is whinging like take the penalty wah wah wah. Just kick and move on if they at least have the decency to ask, expecially since they were DECENT enough to ask than just outright logoff. My point is vindicated by the fact that people get pissy over the issue and in the end if you want out without the pointless penalty that blocks everything they gotta log off until they get out because people wont just kick em and be done with it. Less drama, quicker replacement.

It's not the game's fault you didn't get a duty you wanted or the run isn't going as smooth as you'd like and no one is forcing you to stay in those runs, you can gracefully bow out.

After reading what you said about how you log off/afk to force a kick from your party it shows that it's not the community that's toxic but mindset's like the one you demonstrated.

It is if expecially when your stuck for time. Its also a problem that newbies give a paltry bonus instead of something worthwhile for the extra time, Ie if you help a newbie your dungeon bonus should be DOUBLED to compensate for the fact that it can take much longer to finish the dungeon with a newer person. (ie double the exp or double the poetic/law tomes for example) Current system is counterproducitive and if your forced to restart a trial at the beginning repeatedly after fighting for the best part of 10min it just gets downright exhaustive. Because these trials in many cases are not fun and being done to death they feel more like hassle and work which is the opposite of what people play games like this for. They just want it done and out of the way and going round in circles or taking all day on something that shouldnt take so long only adds to the frustration.

As for game design do people look for kicks on garuda/ifrit/moogle for example? Rarely if ever expecially because even if the group is underpowered your unlikely to get stuck in a wipe cycle. The ones you most likely will get someone requesting a kick is Ravana/Bismark/Steps of Ragequit for the simple reason that if the group is slow your there all day and people have had such a bad time with that theyll at best give it one shot or thats it theyre quitting and not taking a penalty because others cant or wont play properly. This is usually not because people are new either but because theyre just being dense its a regular pattern ive seen when DF groups arent communication or REFUSING to.

Raiya I have a legitimate question for you since you're someone who admits to d/c'ing/afk'ing to force their party to kick you. Do you think you would be less likely to behave in this manner if a vote kick resulted in your character receiving a 30 minute penalty timer or equivalent repercussion?

Meaningless question as its not going to happen expecially with the way it can be abused for those that legitimately get D/C'd. Would be more likely to just leave if the penalty were reset to just 15min like it was before they got the bright idea to increase it to 30min. I'd just leave as well if there was no penalty. Better way to get people to stay is to make it worthwhile for the extra time. Having to do a duty that's a boring grind for twice as long as it should take should at least give something back to offset the extra time.

Thanks for posting this so that I know who you are if I ever get you in one of my groups. Might want to re-think that behavior, since if you're a DPS in my group, you force-dc because you don't like the roulette/group, and I think we can complete without your slot, I'll ask that the team doesn't boot you. Yet, if you had asked to be kicked and stated that you don't like the duty and don't think we can complete it, I might just have kicked you.

--Erim Nelhah

Your unlikely to remember me expecially since I'm barely playing these days anyways. That and the likelyhood of running into me is negligable considering the sheer size of the playerbase :P Besides theres nothing to rethink here you could go without me IF i was on DPS but that means your wasting yout OWN time instead since your taking longer to do something just out of pure spite. Faulty logic there, its quicker to replace and get another DPS which you know is practically instant replacement and try the duty with them but of course if the group sucks which may or many not be something that your at fault over they can simply walk away since people who join dutys in progress dont get penaltys if they dont like the group and just feel like leaving without penalty. This might be the REAL reason some people are getting whiny over this :P

How is it the game's fault that you didn't get what you wanted? If you want to avoid certain dungeons or trials, then pick the ones you want manually. If you want a flawless run every time, then get some friends with you.

Most of the problem's relate to the fact that you have to do roulettes for exp and that. The most likely problem's for this is the trial roulette and getting the likes of Steps of Ragequit/Bismark/Ravana which take a long time to take down and are the most likely ones for getting stuck in a wipe loop on. When its better to quit/dc till kicked than keep trying thats a problem with the way the game is set. As i've said you should get a boosted bonus if it takes longer to complete these dungeons/trials than it normally takes (over 15m for trials /over 40min for dungeons)

[RiceisNice]

Sadly its thrown around simply because its true. Its as bad as WoW's in its own right? Why? Because people are too bloody narky for even the most reasonable of things. Take this issue for example. Someone requests to be kicked for whatever reason and all you get is whinging like take the penalty wah wah wah. Just kick and move on if they at least have the decency to ask, expecially since they were DECENT enough to ask than just outright logoff. My point is vindicated by the fact that people get pissy over the issue and in the end if you want out without the pointless penalty that blocks everything they gotta log off until they get out because people wont just kick em and be done with it. Less drama, quicker replacement.

Because they're the toxic ones for not wanting you to dodge out of a instance that you don't like and putting the burden of replacements on them. And your "point" is that you're going to log off until they kick you.

Most of the problem's relate to the fact that you have to do roulettes for exp and that. The most likely problem's for this is the trial roulette and getting the likes of Steps of Ragequit/Bismark/Ravana which take a long time to take down and are the most likely ones for getting stuck in a wipe loop on. When its better to quit/dc till kicked than keep trying thats a problem with the way the game is set. As i've said you should get a boosted bonus if it takes longer to complete these dungeons/trials than it normally takes (over 15m for trials /over 40min for dungeons)

If you're not prepared for what trial roulette can give you, then don't queue for it. Honestly, you're literally trying to cherry pick isntances you don't want in a setting where it's supposed to give you a random one. Likewise for putting up with the possible players you can run into too,.

Be careful people.

A while back I saw a premade of 2 DPS ask to be kicked. The healer and I refused, and they kicked the healer even though I voted No.

If they demand to be kicked and they're a premade, and you refuse, you may very well end up being kicked yourself.

Luckily most of the time when I see this, it's only one person asking to be kicked, so they're at the mercy of the group.

Collectively report them. Especially if they mentioned this in chat log, GMs can easily bring it up to take a look, doubly so if you can provide them the time as well. These people are literally the worse and they'll do anything to circumvent a leaving penalty.

[Raiya]

Because they're the toxic ones for not wanting you to dodge out of a instance that you don't like and putting the burden of replacements on them. And your "point" is that you're going to log off until they kick you.

Theres no burden on you for simply replacing them. If anything your placing the burden on yourself for not taking the more efficient option of just getting someone else that wants to play instead of trying to make someone play when they dont have the will patience or time for it. Just deal with it and get someone else if they dont want to play and be done with it instead of dragging it out for the sake of spite or because you think you can make someone play when they dont want to.

If you're not prepared for what trial roulette can give you, then don't queue for it. Honestly, you're literally trying to cherry pick isntances you don't want in a setting where it's supposed to give you a random one. Likewise for putting up with the possible players you can run into too.

Most people will give it one shot but if your not even making it past the DPS check on bismark for example or people keep FALLING DOWN THE WELL on Ravana/Titan its not worth it. Most people should give it one attempt anyways since you cant kick anyone for the 1st 5min of a trial/dungeon. Its the wipe loop that has people doing this at least on the longer ones.

[Assirra]

Tbh considering the toxicity of the ffxiv community in general its nearly better to just logoff till they kick you. If someones asking you to kick them its better to just do it. I myself if I get a lousy roulette in trials will usually give em one shot otherwise Ill either ask to be kicked or simply log off until they do. Like it or hate it but chalk it up to game design

Talks about the "toxic community"

Does stuff like that

[MilesSaintboroguh]

How is it the game's fault that you didn't get what you wanted? If you want to avoid certain dungeons or trials, then pick the ones you want manually. If you want a flawless run every time, then get some friends with you.

[Erim-Nelhah]

I agree that something should be done to discourage this. I stated my opinion on what I would do above, but that doesn't mean I like that people can be kicked without penalty.

That said, I don't think the loss of your roulette bonus is an appropriate penalty, so how about this: When you get kicked the first time, you get a stack of a hidden debuff, called "kicked from duty". Also, when you get kicked, you get a 10 minute penalty timer per stack of the debuff you have (calculated before the next stack is added). This means that the first time you get kicked, there's no penalty, Second time, 10 minutes, Third time, 20 minutes, etc. The "kicked from duty" debuff lasts for 18 hours and the timer both runs when you're offline and resets on getting a stack of it.

This would discourage people from repeatedly asking to be kicked (and such requests could still be reported), and also encourage those with flaky internet connections to try to figure out why they're disconnecting so much.

Tbh considering the toxicity of the ffxiv community in general its nearly better to just logoff till they kick you. If someones asking you to kick them its better to just do it. I myself if I get a lousy roulette in trials will usually give em one shot otherwise Ill either ask to be kicked or simply log off until they do. Like it or hate it but chalk it up to game design

Thanks for posting this so that I know who you are if I ever get you in one of my groups. Might want to re-think that behavior, since if you're a DPS in my group, you force-dc because you don't like the roulette/group, and I think we can complete without your slot, I'll ask that the team doesn't boot you. Yet, if you had asked to be kicked and stated that you don't like the duty and don't think we can complete it, I might just have kicked you.

--Erim Nelhah

[lokinmodar]

I ALWAYS say: leave the party yourself. I'm note voting yes to kick you.